Swale....Winning Two Legs of The Triple Crown

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I am intrigued about horses that won two legs of the triple crown. The most popular is of course those who won the first two but then lost the Belmont like Smarty Jones, Big Brown, etc. etc.

Then there is the non winner of the Kentucky Derby that comes back and wins the Preakness and Belmont like Afleet Alex in 2005.

I am kind of inquisitive about the other combination. Winning the Kentucky Derby and then losing the Preakness but winning the Belmont. This happened to Swale in 1983. Can somebody who followed Swale offer some history on his races that year? What happened in the Preakness to him? It seems odd to me he would get beat so badly in the Preakness yet win the longer track Belmont so easily.

Also Swale died of a heart attack eight days after winning the Belmont. Heard he was a hell of a horse. Glad he won the top 3yr old, even though his season was over after the Belmont.

swale had a really fast workout a few days before the preakness-many think he ran his race that day and had nothing in the tank for the real racing. i think he finished eighth that day.

swale was claibornes first derby winner btw.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Danzig

swale had a really fast workout a few days before the preakness-many think he ran his race that day and had nothing in the tank for the real racing. i think he finished eighth that day.

swale was claibornes first derby winner btw.

Isn't that a very basic mistake by the trainer to workout like that so close to a big race?

[RolloTomasi]

Riva Ridge won the Derby and Belmont, but bombed in the Preakness. Mainly because he detested an off track, and Pimlico was sloppy that day.

Thunder Gulch is another. He was 3rd in the Preakness to his own stablemate, but basically had no excuses. His Belmont was a pretty weak affair.

Little Current won both the Preakness and the Belmont by 7 lengths each, coming from way out of it. I'm pretty sure he was in the Derby, too, but obviously his late kick wasn't enough.

Hansel also took the last 2 legs (at generous odds each time, despite being Derby favorite). Not sure what happened in the Derby (he was 10th), although his last two preps (the Jim Beam and Lexington) were monstrous efforts, so perhaps he was over-the-top. That doesn't make much sense though when he comes right back 2 weeks later and beats the same horses by 7 lengths.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Riva Ridge won the Derby and Belmont, but bombed in the Preakness. Mainly because he detested an off track, and Pimlico was sloppy that day.

Thunder Gulch is another. He was 3rd in the Preakness to his own stablemate, but basically had no excuses. His Belmont was a pretty weak affair.

Little Current won both the Preakness and the Belmont by 7 lengths each, coming from way out of it. I'm pretty sure he was in the Derby, too, but obviously his late kick wasn't enough.

Hansel also took the last 2 legs (at generous odds each time, despite being Derby favorite). Not sure what happened in the Derby (he was 10th), although his last two preps (the Jim Beam and Lexington) were monstrous efforts, so perhaps he was over-the-top. That doesn't make much sense though when he comes right back 2 weeks later and beats the same horses by 7 lengths.

Little Current finished 5th... in a 23 HORSE FIELD!!

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2005/de...ears/1974.html

[Danzig]

and i was incorrect in memory, swale finished seventh in the preakness. and imo would hold more than a 'slight' edge over big brown.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and i was incorrect in memory, swale finished seventh in the preakness. and imo would hold more than a 'slight' edge over big brown.

How do you figure more than slight. They both won the FL Derby, they both won two legs of the TC. Swale raced more as a two year old. Swale was not alive to race post post Belmont. Please show me a compelling stat that shows he has more than slight edge.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

How do you figure more than slight. They both won the FL Derby, they both won two legs of the TC. Swale raced more as a two year old. Swale was not alive to race post post Belmont. Please show me a compelling stat that shows he has more than slight edge.

perhaps you answered your own question-altho to say only that 'swale raced more as a two year old' doesn't really give him much credit. he did far more than just race more at two. swale won in how many stakes at two? how many before the fla derby? btw that was big browns first stakes score. how many did he win pre-kentucky deby?- i believe big brown won one. believe it or not roller, there's far, far more to racing then the kentucky derby. and swale won the belmont, remind me how big brown did in that race again?

swale wasn't a great horse either, his life was cut short so we'll never know, and he could be inconsistent. but i'd give him more than a 'slight' edge over big brown, just as i'd give swales peers more than a slight edge over BBs competition.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Little Current finished 5th... in a 23 HORSE FIELD!!

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2005/de...ears/1974.html

Wow there was horse in that Derby that finished 17th named Triple Crown. Yikes. I see that was Canonade's Derby. What happened to him the rest of his 3 year old career?

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Wow there was horse in that Derby that finished 17th named Triple Crown. Yikes. I see that was Canonade's Derby. What happened to him the rest of his 3 year old career?

I remember Triple Crown - I think I have a photo of him in the paddock at Santa Anita somewhere in the basement. He was a big golden chestnut by Hawaii who raced in California early on in his classic preparation. Won the San Vicente (G3, 7f) and the San Jacinto (G2, 8f) and was third in the San Felipe H (G2- 8.5f) to Aloha Mood, then went East to finish second a division of in the Wood Memorial (G1-9f) to Flip Sal (who broke down in the Derby). I don't remember seeing him again after the Derby; he went to stud in 1975, according to my Stallion Registers, but had little success.

1974 was a very confused year for 3yos, with lots of different prep winners, and even double classic winner Little Current didn't appear to be anything special. The top 10 3yos in the Blood-Horse Handicap for 3yos were: Little Current, Agitate, Stonewalk, Cannonade, Holding Pattern (the Travers winner; the filly Chris Evert was third), Lightning Mandate, Judger, Within Hail (a turfer), Bushongo, and Stardust Mel. Some good, solid racehorses in there, but no immortals.

Triple Crown was the last foal of a mare called Belle Jeep, a daughter of War Jeep (he by War Admiral). Among her earlier foals were champion 2yo Jewel's Reward, Ky Jockey Club S winner Evasive Action, SW Lord Jeep, and SP Guillemot, who ran third in the Irish Derby (G1).

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

I remember Triple Crown - I think I have a photo of him in the paddock at Santa Anita somewhere in the basement. He was a big golden chestnut by Hawaii who raced in California early on in his classic preparation. Won the San Vicente (G3, 7f) and the San Jacinto (G2, 8f) and was third in the San Felipe H (G2- 8.5f) to Aloha Mood, then went East to finish second a division of in the Wood Memorial (G1-9f) to Flip Sal (who broke down in the Derby). I don't remember seeing him again after the Derby; he went to stud in 1975, according to my Stallion Registers, but had little success.

1974 was a very confused year for 3yos, with lots of different prep winners, and even double classic winner Little Current didn't appear to be anything special. The top 10 3yos in the Blood-Horse Handicap for 3yos were: Little Current, Agitate, Stonewalk, Cannonade, Holding Pattern (the Travers winner; the filly Chris Evert was third), Lightning Mandate, Judger, Within Hail (a turfer), Bushongo, and Stardust Mel. Some good, solid racehorses in there, but no immortals.

Triple Crown was the last foal of a mare called Belle Jeep, a daughter of War Jeep (he by War Admiral). Among her earlier foals were champion 2yo Jewel's Reward, Ky Jockey Club S winner Evasive Action, SW Lord Jeep, and SP Guillemot, who ran third in the Irish Derby (G1).

Thank you! When I read this, I kind of wish I had been around in the 70s. There were three TC winners? A 23 horse field in the Preakness? Just wish I could have seen what it was like back then compared to now.

[pgiaco]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Little Current finished 5th... in a 23 HORSE FIELD!!

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2005/de...ears/1974.html

That Derby is the reason there is a 20 horse limit now.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Isn't that a very basic mistake by the trainer to workout like that so close to a big race?

when a thousand pound horse takes it into his head to run his ass off in a work, there's not much the rider or trainer can do about it. woody stephens was one of the best trainers ever in this sport, i think he knew a bit about what he was doing.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Isn't that a very basic mistake by the trainer to workout like that so close to a big race?

Risen Star worked a 33 and change either the Thursday or Friday before the Belmont. People said it was too fast and he'd left his race on the track. He won by 14 in one of the fastest Belmont's ever.