On Which Surface?

[blackthroatedwind]

I think KG is probably basically right. The idea of Curlin and Big Brown theoretically deciding who is better on a completely different surface than they have ever run on is about as inane as the Arc, arguably Europe's Championship race, being decided on the dirt. It's meaningless.

In retrospect, Zenyatta going to Oaklawn may be the most definite championship performance of the year.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

In retrospect, Zenyatta going to Oaklawn may be the most definite championship performance of the year.

What if Hystericalady or Ginger Punch should somehow win the Distaff? The sad thing is that Hystericalady has so far shown a disdain for the synthetics, and now must race over it if she hopes to win a championship, while the surface gives Proud Spell an excuse to avoid another meeting with Music Note (unless Darley sends her to the Cotillion for a "rubber match").

Your post also got me thinking about other categories. If you had an inconclusive result in the Filly and Mare Sprint, who would deserve year-end honors for female sprinter: Intangaroo or Indian Blessing? Can Street Boss, who has been really impressive in his races this year, win the champion sprinter award without ever leaving California, and never racing on conventional dirt?

[Danzig]

they need to have a new set of eclipses for top poly horses--oh, excuse me...top AWT horses.

we have a division for turfers, so they need to quit playing like the fake is the same as the real, and have a separate division for the other NON dirt horses as well.

[sdjcom]

I think 1 race decides nothing. As we all know years ago top horses ran against each other and sometimes split the wins after several confrontations.
Any horse can have a bad day, so one race means nothing.

[CSC]

I know when I was a kid, one sporting event that stuck with me throughout the years was the Ruffian/Foolish Pleasure match race. I know there's a snowball's chance of this happening for Curlin/BB, but if they ever wanted to sell the sport of horseracing, this would be a homerun in terms of generating interest.

[sdjcom]

Originally Posted by CSC

I know when I was a kid, one sporting event that stuck with me throughout the years was the Ruffian/Foolish Pleasure match race. I know there's a snowball's chance of this happening for Curlin/BB, but if they ever wanted to sell the sport of horseracing, this would be a homerun in terms of generating interest.

Yes, it created a big to do, and TV, but we haven't had a match race since, I remenber Foolish Pleasure running on home and Ruffian"s leg broken in 3 places just dangling while she stood there in 3 turn. That's why we'll never see another match race in our lifetime. To risky for the Flak if something bad happens

[CSC]

Originally Posted by sdjcom

Yes, it created a big to do, and TV, but we haven't had a match race since, I remenber Foolish Pleasure running on home and Ruffian"s leg broken in 3 places just dangling while she stood there in 3 turn. That's why we'll never see another match race in our lifetime. To risky for the Flak if something bad happens

1 1/8 at Belmont Park, get some corporate sponsership, TV money, Free PR, some celebs to come out, Obama to show up...ect...make it a major event...oh stop dreaming...it's just makes too much sense for it to happen.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

There have been match races since that. Right before she retired, Julie Krone and PVAL rode in a match race.

i'm not sure why some still stick to the fable that there haven't been any match races since the foolish pleasure/ruffian race.

[sdjcom]

Originally Posted by Danzig

they need to have a new set of eclipses for top poly horses--oh, excuse me...top AWT horses.

we have a division for turfers, so they need to quit playing like the fake is the same as the real, and have a separate division for the other NON dirt horses as well.

I agree with you somewhat, why not have a point system, and award horses for the 3 different surfaces on their finish position, and at end of year tally up and the top horses go to breeders cup. Each horse must run at least 1 time on all 3 surfaces. Let's make it interesting. Turf racing is must more predominate now along with artificial, which is here to stay. Just an idea.

[letswastemoney]

Well the Breeder's Cup isn't supposed to determine the division champion anyway. We're supposed to be basing this on the all around effort of the whole year right?

So just take the synthetic BC for what it is, and base horse of the year off of whether you think Curlin winning multiple G1s against older horses is more impressive than Big Brown winning multiple G1s against 3 year olds.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Well the Breeder's Cup isn't supposed to determine the division champion anyway. We're supposed to be basing this on the all around effort of the whole year right?

So just take the synthetic BC for what it is, and base horse of the year off of whether you think Curlin winning multiple G1s against older horses is more impressive than Big Brown winning multiple G1s against 3 year olds.

it's funny tho...in a non-humorous way. people say it shouldn't decide the championship, and then invariably you have people questioning why a horse skips the bc, with questions as to whether they should be eligible for year-end honors. it happened with mineshaft, and has already been brought up about curlin. it's horse of the year, not horse of the bc, so i absolutely agree that it shouldn't be what determine's championships. but in some categories, it does since so many voters haven't got a clue who the top horses are in a division, so they rely on that one days' races-which explains why many voters shouldn't be. they need a better system to decide who gets what.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

What if Hystericalady or Ginger Punch should somehow win the Distaff? The sad thing is that Hystericalady has so far shown a disdain for the synthetics, and now must race over it if she hopes to win a championship, while the surface gives Proud Spell an excuse to avoid another meeting with Music Note (unless Darley sends her to the Cotillion for a "rubber match").

Your post also got me thinking about other categories. If you had an inconclusive result in the Filly and Mare Sprint, who would deserve year-end honors for female sprinter: Intangaroo or Indian Blessing? Can Street Boss, who has been really impressive in his races this year, win the champion sprinter award without ever leaving California, and never racing on conventional dirt?

Why would you assume Music Note would run well on an AWT? .. or that MN is better than PS for that matter? I'd like to see a 'rubber match' nonetheless.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Why would you assume Music Note would run well on an AWT? .. or that MN is better than PS for that matter? I'd like to see a 'rubber match' nonetheless.

I'm not assuming that Music Note would run well on an AWT ... or that Music Note is "better" than Proud Spell. My point was that, due to Proud Spell's showing in the Ashland, it gives her connections an excuse not to point to the Breeders' Cup.

Personally, I'd like the two to meet in the Beldame; the Cotillion is close to Proud Spell's home base but, at 8.5F, it is not exactly a "championship" race. My sense is that Proud Spell's connections think that, if the two fillies don't face each other again this year, Proud Spell wrapped up a championship with her win in the Alabama (barring Music Note winning the BC Distaff).

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

What if Hystericalady or Ginger Punch should somehow win the Distaff? The sad thing is that Hystericalady has so far shown a disdain for the synthetics, and now must race over it if she hopes to win a championship, while the surface gives Proud Spell an excuse to avoid another meeting with Music Note (unless Darley sends her to the Cotillion for a "rubber match").

Your post also got me thinking about other categories. If you had an inconclusive result in the Filly and Mare Sprint, who would deserve year-end honors for female sprinter: Intangaroo or Indian Blessing? Can Street Boss, who has been really impressive in his races this year, win the champion sprinter award without ever leaving California, and never racing on conventional dirt?

on dirt lady and zenyatta tower over Ginger punch.... hysericalady would give zenyatta a good run on dirt, if not defeat her.