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  #1  
Old 08-27-2008, 01:28 PM
Bystander Bystander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paisjpq
I would like to know who the hell is actually surprised that these people are underpaid...
Seriously. This is news?
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2008, 07:15 PM
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Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
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For the quality of work received, very few are underpaid. The govt seems simply to exist to try to destroy small business and provide big media circuses to make it seem as though they are actually doing something. No one working on the backside doesnt understand the deal going in, backside workers recieve health care benefits and a place to live to go along with their pay. After the bs workmans comp law that was passed in NY last year this is step number 2 in the death of all non connected business in NY. Horse trainers are an easy target because of the perception of everyone being wealthy, the widespread use of immigrants and the lack of a trainers lobbyist group. The timing of Travers week is no coincidence i'm sure.
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2008, 08:01 PM
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Linny Linny is offline
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The fact is that the typical backstretch worker DOES have a long day, when he or she is "running a horse." Even when the barn has nothing running, it's split shift or a long day. Most of the barn work is done in the morning by noon then there is late feeding and evening check. It's the nature of the work.
That said, I agree with Cannon that for the employer (trainer) it's impossible to schedule staff to avoid overtime when the day starts at 5am and ends at 8pm. Even if you give your help 3 hrs off for "lunch", it's considered too long a day. In NY the issue is compounded by the insane detention process. The groom now has to sit in the gulag with the horse, unable to accomplish any of the barn chores that could be done while on the clock.
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2008, 10:54 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
For the quality of work received, very few are underpaid. The govt seems simply to exist to try to destroy small business and provide big media circuses to make it seem as though they are actually doing something. No one working on the backside doesnt understand the deal going in, backside workers recieve health care benefits and a place to live to go along with their pay. After the bs workmans comp law that was passed in NY last year this is step number 2 in the death of all non connected business in NY. Horse trainers are an easy target because of the perception of everyone being wealthy, the widespread use of immigrants and the lack of a trainers lobbyist group. The timing of Travers week is no coincidence i'm sure.
Maybe the day rate of 85 a day isnt enough to pay the workers?
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2008, 03:05 PM
Habersham000 Habersham000 is offline
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Well we don't live in a 3rd world country so that is why we have Labor Laws...there should be NO reason why they can't be followed and Trainers should not think they don't have to follow them...I guess every trainer feels they are entitled to driving a BMW in New York, so they stiff their workers....if the help is no good why don't you just fire them? I would think if you did pay the help the correct amount they would make more money and in turn maybe work harder...just a thought
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2008, 05:47 PM
Gander Gander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habersham000
Well we don't live in a 3rd world country so that is why we have Labor Laws...there should be NO reason why they can't be followed and Trainers should not think they don't have to follow them...I guess every trainer feels they are entitled to driving a BMW in New York, so they stiff their workers....if the help is no good why don't you just fire them? I would think if you did pay the help the correct amount they would make more money and in turn maybe work harder...just a thought
I see Barclay Tagg driving around town in a huge Lexus (Florida plates) and the guys working for him on Schwinns

He be rolling in his Lexus looking all cool and ****.
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2008, 05:56 PM
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Some of the trainers need to be deported as well.
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2008, 06:24 PM
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Tagg just got that car. For 10 years he had an Altima.
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2008, 11:39 AM
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Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habersham000
Well we don't live in a 3rd world country so that is why we have Labor Laws...there should be NO reason why they can't be followed and Trainers should not think they don't have to follow them...I guess every trainer feels they are entitled to driving a BMW in New York, so they stiff their workers....if the help is no good why don't you just fire them? I would think if you did pay the help the correct amount they would make more money and in turn maybe work harder...just a thought
Give me a break. You try to read through these laws and how to properly interpret them then give me your opinion. This isnt about people not being paid for their work, it is about the time schedule and the hours that are needed. It is too bad that taking care of horses is a job that takes considerable amounts of time and effort but no one drafted anyone into these positions. These guys make a lot more than they would doing something else that they are qualified to do (like washing dishes) and the immigrant workers flock to the track because the opportunity is much better than in the fields or in the restaurant business. And by the way you thoughts about paying them more and having them work harder is not only bunk it doesnt work, believe me i've tried.
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:35 PM
Habersham000 Habersham000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Give me a break. You try to read through these laws and how to properly interpret them then give me your opinion. This isnt about people not being paid for their work, it is about the time schedule and the hours that are needed. It is too bad that taking care of horses is a job that takes considerable amounts of time and effort but no one drafted anyone into these positions. These guys make a lot more than they would doing something else that they are qualified to do (like washing dishes) and the immigrant workers flock to the track because the opportunity is much better than in the fields or in the restaurant business. And by the way you thoughts about paying them more and having them work harder is not only bunk it doesnt work, believe me i've tried.

If it takes long hours to take care of a horse then you should be paid for it...not stiffed on your hours....many people have jobs that take long hours but they get paid for every hour they work...I don't know what you or any other trainer pays their help but I would guess it is near minimum wage so they only reason they would make more money working with the horses versus washing dishes is they work more hours...their pay per hour rate would probably be similar.
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  #11  
Old 08-29-2008, 08:00 PM
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Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habersham000
If it takes long hours to take care of a horse then you should be paid for it...not stiffed on your hours....many people have jobs that take long hours but they get paid for every hour they work...I don't know what you or any other trainer pays their help but I would guess it is near minimum wage so they only reason they would make more money working with the horses versus washing dishes is they work more hours...their pay per hour rate would probably be similar.
Everyone who gets hired in my barn and most barns are fully aware of the hours, responsibilities and pay when they are hired. If they stay long enough they get bonuses, vacations and other perks like healthcare and a free place to live. Since I have been in business the pay scale has risen by at least 25% for grooms and hotwalkers and even more for exercise riders and assistants. What exactly should they do if they have a good horse and want to take care of them properly? Be mandated by the state to take a day off and let somebody else mess with them? Do you think Curlins groom wants someone else putting bandages on him?
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2008, 12:10 PM
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paisjpq paisjpq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habersham000
Well we don't live in a 3rd world country so that is why we have Labor Laws...there should be NO reason why they can't be followed and Trainers should not think they don't have to follow them...I guess every trainer feels they are entitled to driving a BMW in New York, so they stiff their workers....if the help is no good why don't you just fire them? I would think if you did pay the help the correct amount they would make more money and in turn maybe work harder...just a thought
farm work is farm work...it is backbreaking and the hours suck, and the profit margins are usually very slim....so guess what, the wages suck too. I can't tell you haow many jobs I have had in the horse industry (thoroughbred and otherwise) where I have put in 70-80 hour work weeks and gotten paid for 48 (the standard horse work week). And I'm not hispanic and I've done it for minimum wage. It's the nature of the beast, and anyone who enters any farming situation knows what they are in for...the animals eat first, sleep first and get better health care etc....
the old George Carlin line applies here "most people work just hard enough not to get fired and get paid just enough not to quit.
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2008, 08:58 PM
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Stall Mucker Stall Mucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I'm willing to bet at least some of the people working the backside are probably here illegally and New York is hardly the only state this goes on.
I agree about the illegals. However, in many instances, illegals are the only folks who will take the work.
CapNews9, Albany reports that 88 workers are owed $7000 in overtime and minimum wages. Do the math. Doesn't seem like a real big error here. Dept Labor also reported that payroll books were not kept well which seems to indicate some workers are paid under the table or at least partially.
Most trainers will give the crew a bonus when stakes are won and times are good.

According to the report the Dept of Labor will broaden their investigation beyond Saratoga.
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2008, 09:38 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stall Mucker
I agree about the illegals. However, in many instances, illegals are the only folks who will take the work.
CapNews9, Albany reports that 88 workers are owed $7000 in overtime and minimum wages. Do the math. Doesn't seem like a real big error here. Dept Labor also reported that payroll books were not kept well which seems to indicate some workers are paid under the table or at least partially.
Most trainers will give the crew a bonus when stakes are won and times are good.

According to the report the Dept of Labor will broaden their investigation beyond Saratoga.
Man they are really going after the big sources.
The home builders in Texas... jeez half the new houses would
not even be built. Its a migrant gold mine here.

They wont touch it. Would just add to the housing problems
the rest of the country already has.

Is this the Federal or State Dept. of Labor?
It is the state, makes sense.
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2008, 09:51 PM
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fpsoxfan fpsoxfan is offline
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At least these folks are willing to work. It's amazing how many natural born riff-raff just sit on their fat asses and wait for their welfare check. Which reminds me, New Orleans is about five days away from getting whacked again, do you think some of these folks might want to think about leaving this time?
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