8/9 (AP): Million; Beverly D.; Secretariat (Gr. I's)

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Scav

he got out with like 100 yards to go, maybe, and having to make up 2 lengths off a horse that just did soft fractions.

If Murtagh doesn't ride to keep him pinned, Penko is out and clear by the 1/4 pole and it is alot closer, and probably blows by this horse.

Honestly, Murtagh was out of horse on the the final turn and purposely rode to keep Penko pinned. I don't blame him one bit, that is race riding. Shea had EVERY opportunity on the backside to get Penko in clear running in the 2 path but chose to keep him on the rail...

BTW I am not saying Spirit One is a better horse than Archipenko. In all honesty I think Archi is, but in this one isolated case he was not clearly the better horse.

[brockguy]

De Kock's comments were nothing when compared to Shea's:

“He should've won, no doubt about it,” Shea suggested.

“Johnny hindered me the whole way round and twice pushed me into the fence"


It was a tough beat for connections but they'll slowly get over it..

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

BTW I am not saying Spirit One is a better horse than Archipenko. In all honesty I think Archi is, but in this one isolated case he was not clearly the better horse.

Like Scav said, he got clear too late. Had he found a seam at the eighth pole and not run Spirit One down, I'd agree with you, but you can't alter course with 100 yards to go and not lose significant ground. I'm not going to say he was easily best, but I think he was best.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Like Scav said, he got clear too late. Had he found a seam at the eighth pole and not run Spirit One down, I'd agree with you, but you can't alter course with 100 yards to go and not lose significant ground. I'm not going to say he was easily best, but I think he was best.

I'm not so sure, but that's a very fair opinion.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Like Scav said, he got clear too late. Had he found a seam at the eighth pole and not run Spirit One down, I'd agree with you, but you can't alter course with 100 yards to go and not lose significant ground. I'm not going to say he was easily best, but I think he was best.

Ateamstupid,

Just an additional comment, I think Shea should have used his horse earlier on to get position where he could have avoided trouble, European riders like to wait for daylight and perhaps that is what should be done on the long european tracks, here in America you have to risk using abit of horse early on.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by CSC

Ateamstupid,

Just an additional comment, I think Shea should have used his horse earlier on to get position where he could have avoided trouble, European riders like to wait for daylight and perhaps that is what should be done on the long european tracks, here in America you have to risk using abit of horse early on.

I agree 100%. Shea was here EARLY. He should have tried to get a mount in a turf race (Hell, he could have paid one of the ridiculous jocks to 'take' his mount if he wanted) to get a feel for the course in race conditions...

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Scav

I agree 100%. Shea was here EARLY. He should have tried to get a mount in a turf race (Hell, he could have paid one of the ridiculous jocks to 'take' his mount if he wanted) to get a feel for the course in race conditions...

Good discussion here, that is why I am siding on conservatism on Archi getting up if he had a clear path, he may have, but Shea had alot of horse he didn't use so oncourse Archi came with a run when he got daylight. There are some European, Dubai, Aussie horses that are just more effective on long straight tracks. The perfect illustration of that that I can remember is Rock Of Gibralter running out of room at Arlington where DomeDriver got the dream run. Rock of Gibralter was unbeatable on those European tracks.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Good discussion here, that is why I am siding on conservatism on Archi getting up if he had a clear path, he may have, but Shea had alot of horse he didn't use so oncourse Archi came with a run when he got daylight. There are some European, Dubai, Aussie horses that are just more effective on long straight tracks. The perfect illustration of that that I can remember is Rock Of Gibralter running out of room at Arlington where DomeDriver got the dream run. Rock of Gibralter was unbeatable on those European tracks.

I'm pretty sure the Rock losing had nothing to do with his jockey not being familiar with the course or from it not being a long enough stretch. He was forced to steady and shift to the outside when Landseer broke down in front of him.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm pretty sure the Rock losing had nothing to do with his jockey not being familiar with the course or from it not being a long enough stretch. He was forced to steady and shift to the outside when Landseer broke down in front of him.

NT

Yes remember that well, I respectfully disagree he wouldn't have gotten up anyway imo, though it was a hinderance. Landeer actually was running a big race that day, but there is no doubt Domedriver a decent miler in his own right had the trip that day.