Trying To Make Money On Big Brown Today...

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i'd bring up cigar and ask whom big brown was supposed to beat if i was you. that's assuming a fictional you that knows who cigar is.

and it's a completely fraudulent comparison.

but it would be fun to see how people answered. excellent work with the poking stick so far. i don't know why i'm giving you advise. you're doing just fine.

I'm not sure if I can answer since I am not fictional. But I do like your avatar.

[skippy3481]

I dont think he would win HOY unless he beats curlin. I think hes a good horse but i dont think you could ever label him great. What he did in Fl and the KD was was impressive. Just like what afleet alex did was impressive. But to be considered a great horse he needs to be impressive every race. You seem as if your trying to learn which is a great thing.

You shouldn't feel the need to defend the horse. It doesn't matter what people think of the horse. He will prove what he is on the track and and history will be a great guide to how good he was. The horse speed wise just does not compare with horses in the past 10 years. Regardless of who he beats or who beats him, this stands out against everything else.

[Gander]

You could never label Big Brown great, but you can use the word great with Curlin? How exactly?

People bash the horses Big Brown has beaten this year, but what about the horses Curlin has beaten? That was the worst field ever in the Dubai World Cup (I dont even think thats arguable). He beat Well Armed and Asiatic Boy. And lets look at who he beat in the Foster...Barcola (couldnt even run a competitive race against Evening Attire), Einstein (nice turf horse but not top class on dirt).

Curlin hasnt been impressive in every race either. He got whipped by Any Given Saturday last summer and that horse wasnt that good. He wasnt impressive in his turf race. He got a perfect trip in the Belmont and still lost to a filly. I wouldnt call any of those races impressive.

By today's standards, I guess I'd call him great. But so is Big Brown too. Whats the barometer anyways? We no longer have real horses like Skip Away and Cigar. So I guess we use Curlin and Big Brown to define greatness?!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

You could never label Big Brown great, but you can use the word great with Curlin? How exactly?

People bash the horses Big Brown has beaten this year, but what about the horses Curlin has beaten? That was the worst field ever in the Dubai World Cup (I dont even think thats arguable). He beat Well Armed and Asiatic Boy. And lets look at who he beat in the Foster...Barcola (couldnt even run a competitive race against Evening Attire), Einstein (nice turf horse but not top class on dirt).

Curlin hasnt been impressive in every race either. He got whipped by Any Given Saturday last summer and that horse wasnt that good. He wasnt impressive in his turf race. He got a perfect trip in the Belmont and still lost to a filly. I wouldnt call any of those races impressive.

By today's standards, I guess I'd call him great. But so is Big Brown too. Whats the barometer anyways? We no longer have real horses like Skip Away and Cigar. So I guess we use Curlin and Big Brown to define greatness?!

i don't consider either of them great, by any means. to lower standards to meet the reality of horse racing these days would be wrong, which is why i take the stand i do.

the last couple of years we've had decent horses- i thought last years crop was a deep one-but i don't know that any of those horses, curlin included, really hold a candle to horses we've had the pleasure of watching over the years. contentious doesn't mean spectacular.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't consider either of them great, by any means. to lower standards to meet the reality of horse racing these days would be wrong, which is why i take the stand i do.

the last couple of years we've had decent horses- i thought last years crop was a deep one-but i don't know that any of those horses, curlin included, really hold a candle to horses we've had the pleasure of watching over the years. contentious doesn't mean spectacular.

Danzig,

I thought the field in the Kentucky Derby 2006 was a pretty strong one when Barbaro won. Do you agree? Or anyone else agree?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

I dont think he would win HOY unless he beats curlin. I think hes a good horse but i dont think you could ever label him great. What he did in Fl and the KD was was impressive. Just like what afleet alex did was impressive. But to be considered a great horse he needs to be impressive every race. You seem as if your trying to learn which is a great thing.

Not so, skippy. Spectacular Bid's Belmont was not impressive. Neither was Secretariat's 3rd place finish in the Wood.

Danzig, IMO your calling Big Brown "ordinary" is almost as outrageous as Roller Doc calling him "great".

--Dunbar

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You make a good point about the ordinary thing. If you look at what big Brown has accomplished in his short career, it's certainly not ordinary. But, when you look at competition and try and compare him to others, he does not come across as a great, IMO.

I agree with this statement... but I do think he is having a great year, you cant blame the lack of competition on him. Any horse to win the type of races he has would have had a "great" year. At this point he is much more accomplished than Curlin was at the same time last year.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I agree with this statement... but I do think he is having a great year, you cant blame the lack of competition on him. Any horse to win the type of races he has would have had a "great" year. At this point he is much more accomplished than Curlin was at the same time last year.

Here is why Big Brown is GREAT to me:

He has attained over 3.5 million in winnings, including several hundred for me because of my wagers on Big Brown. Actually my girlfriend is the benefactor of my winnings. So she thinks I am great for her getting her a new Louis Vitton bag, therefore I think Big Brown is great. Hopefully this puts the Big Brown is GREAT argument to bed

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Here is why Big Brown is GREAT to me:

He has attained over 3.5 million in winnings, including several hundred for me because of my wagers on Big Brown. Actually my girlfriend is the benefactor of my winnings. So she thinks I am great for her getting her a new Louis Vitton bag, therefore I think Big Brown is great. Hopefully this puts the Big Brown is GREAT argument to bed

Well if BB would have got me some ..... I'd think he's great too.

[Gander]

You also have to take a look at just how much Big Brown is beating his competition by, which I agree 100% is very weak.
He was pulled up in the Belmont and he barely got up to win the Haskell against a bunch of goats. But before that he won the KY Derby and the Florida Derby by the easiest of margins from terrible posts which put him at a disadvantage right from the get go. He won the Preakness by a ton. He won his maiden debut on the grass by a mile. Thats got to count for something and you have to also consider his most impressive races, which I just mentioned were all won under close to hand rides with very little urging. His margins of victory could have been even more.

The horses he beat were pretty awful, but realistically not that much worse than the 3 year olds that were running the year Giacomo and Afleet Alex won.

And I'd take a few of the 3 year olds Big Brown crushed over Barcola.

[RollerDoc]

I was thinking that when this thread dies down, I should start a new one titled:

WHO WAS BETTER.....SECRETARIAT or BIG BROWN?

But based on this crowd, I probably shouldn't.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I was thinking that when this thread dies down, I should start a new one titled:

WHO WAS BETTER.....SECRETARIAT or BIG BROWN?

But based on this crowd, I probably shouldn't.

You have heard of Secretariat??? Thats a good start!