Trying To Make Money On Big Brown Today...

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So again, you don't take level of competition into consideration. I can see we're making progress.

Yes I do take level of competition into consideration. I am just getting frustrated that so many of you dilute the accomplishments of Big Brown because of the dismay you all have for his connections (which I am disappointed as well). The Jackson's, Michael Matz, and Edgar Prado they sure are not.

Take them out of the equation and I think we have had a really talented 3 year old to be treated to this year in Big Brown. If the BCC were to be held today, you can take to the bank that I will bet the $400.00 plus that I am up on betting Big Brown this year TO WIN and beat old man Curlin. Uh oh....I know I am really going to get slammed for that one. Just kidding about Curlin.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Yes I do take level of competition into consideration. I am just getting frustrated that so many of you dilute the accomplishments of Big Brown because of the dismay you all have for his connections (which I am disappointed as well). The Jackson's, Michael Matz, and Edgar Prado they sure are not.

Take them out of the equation and I think we have had a really talented 3 year old to be treated to this year in Big Brown. If the BCC were to be held today, you can take to the bank that I will bet the $400.00 plus that I am up on betting Big Brown this year TO WIN and beat old man Curlin. Uh oh....I know I am really going to get slammed for that one. Just kidding about Curlin.

Barbaro wasn't great either! It has nothing to do with the connections, it has to do with a complete disconnect from the history of the game.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Barbaro wasn't great either! It has nothing to do with the connections, it has to do with a complete disconnect from the history of the game.

Barbaro only was not yet great because of the tragedy at the Preakness. He might have been great, maybe he wouldn't have. Would have loved to seen that match up against Bernardini. Personally I think Barbaro would have had more heart than Bernardini at the wire of the BCC vs. Invasor.

Regarding history, I am not qualified to compare Alex, Big Brown, Barbaro, et all with the great horses before them. The real problem with me saying great horse in Afleet Alex's case is because somebody created the category of "super horse." So if that is an actual category that I frequently see on this Board, then no Afleet Alex was not a Super Horse but yes, he was a "great" horse.

[Damascus '67]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Barbaro only was not yet great because of the tragedy at the Preakness. He might have been great, maybe he wouldn't have. Would have loved to seen that match up against Bernardini. Personally I think Barbaro would have had more heart than Bernardini at the wire of the BCC vs. Invasor.

Regarding history, I am not qualified to compare Alex, Big Brown, Barbaro, et all with the great horses before them. The real problem with me saying great horse in Afleet Alex's case is because somebody created the category of "super horse." So if that is an actual category that I frequently see on this Board, then no Afleet Alex was not a Super Horse but yes, he was a "great" horse.

As much as I liked Afleet Alex, I wouldn't put him in the category of a "great horse'..maybe one of the best horses this decade, but if you want the definition of a great horse, I would include some of these, Bold Ruler, Native Dancer, Buckpasser, Damascus, Kelso, Citation, Secretariat and Spectacular Bid to name a few and those are only a few...

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Personally I think Barbaro would have had more heart than Bernardini at the wire of the BCC vs. Invasor.

And you say this based on what, his life and death win over Sharp Humor?

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

And you say this based on what, his life and death win over Sharp Humor?

Umm Yes, are you serious? You didn't think the 2006 Kentucky Derby was a loaded field of talented three year olds. Barbaro won by seven lengths blowing out notables like Bluegrass Cat, Lawyer Ron, Brother Derek, Sweetnorthernsaint, Jazil, and Steppenwolfer......not to mention a nifty move he put on A.P. Warrior early in the race.

[SniperSB23]

This thread just keeps getting more amusing. AP Warrior!

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

This thread just keeps getting more amusing. AP Warrior!

All I'm saying is Barbaro saw to it that A.P Warrior was one less to compete against early on. Why do you discount the other mentions. I didn't include A.P Warrior in the list of others. Only as a "not to mention."

I'm glad I can amuse you.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Umm Yes, are you serious? You didn't think the 2006 Kentucky Derby was a loaded field of talented three year olds. Barbaro won by seven lengths blowing out notables like Bluegrass Cat, Lawyer Ron, Brother Derek, Sweetnorthernsaint, Jazil, and Steppenwolfer......not to mention a nifty move he put on A.P. Warrior early in the race.

LOL, you're either a troll or clueless. Either way, I'm done with this.

[skippy3481]

First time ive ever heard of a horse putting a nifty move on another horse.... well done sir...

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

LOL, you're either a troll or clueless. Either way, I'm done with this.

Aren't you kind.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Yes I do take level of competition into consideration. I am just getting frustrated that so many of you dilute the accomplishments of Big Brown because of the dismay you all have for his connections (which I am disappointed as well). The Jackson's, Michael Matz, and Edgar Prado they sure are not.

Take them out of the equation and I think we have had a really talented 3 year old to be treated to this year in Big Brown. If the BCC were to be held today, you can take to the bank that I will bet the $400.00 plus that I am up on betting Big Brown this year TO WIN and beat old man Curlin. Uh oh....I know I am really going to get slammed for that one. Just kidding about Curlin.

dude, you have no idea what the level of competition is-especially since you concede you've never heard of dr fager, one of the greatest horses of all time. not of the past couple of years, of ALL TIME. big brown isn't even a horse compared to dr fager. he doesn't belong in the same breath, let alone the same BREED!
big brown wouldn't be any faster if mother theresa owned him and the pope rode him. he's an ordinary horse, but he's better than his peers. that doesn't make him great.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Danzig

dude, you have no idea what the level of competition is-especially since you concede you've never heard of dr fager, one of the greatest horses of all time. not of the past couple of years, of ALL TIME. big brown isn't even a horse compared to dr fager. he doesn't belong in the same breath, let alone the same BREED!
big brown wouldn't be any faster if mother theresa owned him and the pope rode him. he's an ordinary horse, but he's better than his peers. that doesn't make him great.

Who said Big Brown compares to Dr. Fager? Not me. And while me not knowing Dr. Fager explains a lot, there is no way a flunkie like me will agree that Big Brown is an "ordinary" horse. And as much as you don't want to associate Big Brown with any history, unfortunately you can't.

Here's a few....Winning Kentucky Derby with fewest starts in the modern era. Winning from Post 20 vs. 19 others since early 1900s. Faced the most opponents in the the triple crown races. As a sidenote, he won FL from the outside.........All this is not ordinary. Plus he has done all of this with very unpopular connections.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Who said Big Brown compares to Dr. Fager? Not me. And while me not knowing Dr. Fager explains a lot, there is no way a flunkie like me will agree that Big Brown is an "ordinary" horse. And as much as you don't want to associate Big Brown with any history, unfortunately you can't.

Here's a few....Winning Kentucky Derby with fewest starts in the modern era. Winning from Post 20 vs. 19 others since early 1900s. Faced the most opponents in the the triple crown races. As a sidenote, he won FL from the outside.........All this is not ordinary. Plus he has done all of this with very unpopular connections.

i was at ap the other day, they had an allowance race on the card with horses who ran similar beyers to what big brown ran on sunday. are they great?
if anyone is still speaking of big brown 20, 30, 50 or a 100 years from now, i'll stand corrected. too much to ask?
kincsem ran a few centuries ago. man o war ran when world war one was happening, and colin ran vs man o wars father. yet those horses are still mentioned today. 50 years after man o war retired, 30-some years after he died, a horse ran at two who was compared to man o war, the question was asked if he was big red come back to life-30 years later that debate still rages as to who was better, secretariat or man o war. That is the definition of greatness.

as for the florida derby, i've said (more than once) that i thought big brown ran well there, in kentucky as well. that's why i said i didn't think he ran that well on sunday, it doesn't compare to how he ran in april/may. but those efforts don't make him great.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

dude, you have no idea what the level of competition is-especially since you concede you've never heard of dr fager, one of the greatest horses of all time. not of the past couple of years, of ALL TIME. big brown isn't even a horse compared to dr fager. he doesn't belong in the same breath, let alone the same BREED!
big brown wouldn't be any faster if mother theresa owned him and the pope rode him. he's an ordinary horse, but he's better than his peers. that doesn't make him great.

there is nothing ordinary about Big Brown.. except maybe that he's brown. There are two horses running in the US better than Big Brown, Curlin and Commentator. He's not this horrible horse that you make him out to be. He has amazing accomplishments even if they were done against not so hot horses.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

there is nothing ordinary about Big Brown.. except maybe that he's brown. There are two horses running in the US better than Big Brown, Curlin and Commentator. He's not this horrible horse that you make him out to be. He has amazing accomplishments even if they were done against not so hot horses.

when did i say he was horrible? not going to argue about the fact that only two horses are better either, as i agree with that.
as for his accomplishments, i thought he ran two very good races in florida and kentucky, as i've said countless times..doesn't make him to be the great horses that others have said he is. absolutely he's the best 3 yo this year-but how much is that saying exactly, considering the level of talent this year.
this is not a black and white issue. it's not accurate to say he's either great, or he's terrible-that if you don't feel one way, you feel the other.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

when did i say he was horrible? not going to argue about the fact that only two horses are better either, as i agree with that.
as for his accomplishments, i thought he ran two very good races in florida and kentucky, as i've said countless times..doesn't make him to be the great horses that others have said he is. absolutely he's the best 3 yo this year-but how much is that saying exactly, considering the level of talent this year.
this is not a black and white issue. it's not accurate to say he's either great, or he's terrible-that if you don't feel one way, you feel the other.

I shouldnt have said "terrible". I just had an issue with the "ordinary" comment.. Because if there is one thing Big Brown is not, it's ordinary.