Michelle Wie

[golfer]

Originally Posted by GPK

Nope...it's the same for everyone. As long as everyone is playing under the same rule, there is nothing unfair about it. And this isn't just PGA Tournament golf...the same thing goes in amatuer competition as well. Michelle has been playing in tournament long enough to know the rule.

I don't think it is unfair, just silly. The game has changed a bit since these rules were created in the late 1800's. Frankly, it's not even necessary for the player's to keep their own score anymore, with shotlink, volunteers and rules officials following every group, etc..
I'm not making excuses for what she did, but this agregious violation of the rules did not occur on the course, and as Doc wrote, wasn't even dealt with until the next day, after she had already completed a round that didn't count.
They did away with the stymie, they need to go back into their biblical book of rules and update them. Just my opinion.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by golfer

I don't think it is unfair, just silly. The game has changed a bit since these rules were created in the late 1800's. Frankly, it's not even necessary for the player's to keep their own score anymore, with shotlink, volunteers and rules officials following every group, etc..
I'm not making excuses for what she did, but this agregious violation of the rules did not occur on the course, and as Doc wrote, wasn't even dealt with until the next day, after she had already completed a round that didn't count.
They did away with the stymie, they need to go back into their biblical book of rules and update them. Just my opinion.

When do you make the cutoff then for time allowed to sign their scorecard? Do you call the player at their hotel that night and say "Hey, Michelle, forgot to sign your scorecard today, make sure you sign it in the morning before you tee off"???The scoring tent is there for a reason....TO SIGN YOUR SCORECARD. It's NO ONES responsibility to make sure their card is signed other than the players themselves....not the volunteers, not the officials. Every tournament I have ever played in and every round I ever caddied in on the LPGA, the people working the scoring tent always remind the players to have 2 signatures on the card. Not once have I ever been in a scoring tent as a player or caddy where someone didn't mention it. It's Michelles fault, plain and simple. I assure you, this happens more frequently than people realize, on every tour. We just happen to hear about it because it was Ms. Wie and she was near the lead.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by GPK

When do you make the cutoff then for time allowed to sign their scorecard? Do you call the player at their hotel that night and say "Hey, Michelle, forgot to sign your scorecard today, make sure you sign it in the morning before you tee off"???The scoring tent is there for a reason....TO SIGN YOUR SCORECARD. It's NO ONES responsibility to make sure their card is signed other than the players themselves....not the volunteers, not the officials. Every tournament I have ever played in and every round I ever caddied in on the LPGA, the people working the scoring tent always remind the players to have 2 signatures on the card. Not once have I ever been in a scoring tent as a player or caddy where someone didn't mention it. It's Michelles fault, plain and simple. I assure you, this happens more frequently than people realize, on every tour. We just happen to hear about it because it was Ms. Wie and she was near the lead.

This next sentence applies only to professional PGA/LPGA tournaments, but why even make it mandatory to sign the card? If it's correct, it's correct, if it's wrong, it's wrong, a player's signature shouldn't change either of these facts. And what exactly are the officials in the scoring tent doing? How many are in there, and what are their responsibilities?

Now, to the specific example of Michelle Wie; I did not intend to make excuses for her, I honestly couldn't care one way or the other. The only thing dumber than the rule itself, is Michelle Wie's breaking it. But Morty wrote it best, does the punishment fit the crime? Hell, a player could and probably should sign the thing before the round, to ensure they don't forget, no?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by golfer

This next sentence applies only to professional PGA/LPGA tournaments, but why even make it mandatory to sign the card? If it's correct, it's correct, if it's wrong, it's wrong, a player's signature shouldn't change either of these facts. And what exactly are the officials in the scoring tent doing? How many are in there, and what are their responsibilities?

Now, to the specific example of Michelle Wie; I did not intend to make excuses for her, I honestly couldn't care one way or the other. The only thing dumber than the rule itself, is Michelle Wie's breaking it. But Morty wrote it best, does the punishment fit the crime? Hell, a player could and probably should sign the thing before the round, to ensure they don't forget, no?

Seth...please don't think I was jumping on you in my previous post....I just happen to quote yours.

Very rarely are officials in the scoring tent. The people in the tent are volunteers. They are mainly responsible for correctly adding up the players score. The players are responsible for 2 things and 2 things only after their round. 1. Making sure their hole by hole score is correct (which they do by calling hole by hole scores aloud with the walking scorekeeper from the group and the player that kept their scorecard for that day) and 2. Making sure they sign their scorecard.

I don't think those two things are asking too much. By signing their card, they player is verifying the hole by hole score is correct.

[GPK]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is when the Volunteers reported to a rules official the incident. It may not have been mentioned until the next day. Even then, Ms. Wie is the only one at fault here.

[Mortimer]

no wok good

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by GPK

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is when the Volunteers reported to a rules official the incident. It may not have been mentioned until the next day. Even then, Ms. Wie is the only one at fault here.

After the next round??? Wie wasn't informed apparently until she finished play the NEXT day. You know a hell of a lot more about this game than I but Kev that seems pretty arbitrary. Although the game has past precedent for retroactive rule enforcement.

A couple strange ones I vaguely remember and help me out golf fans for accuracy. I seem to remember a case where a viewer at home on a Saturday telecast called into to inquire about some player laying down a towel in a bunker or hazzard under his knee before playng his next shot which was a) viewed as improving his lie (2 shot penalty) and thus b) he signed an incorrect scorecard and was DQ'd and may have either been leading or near the top when the offense occurred.

The other was also a meddling viewer calling in about a double hit that was caught in tape but not enforced by the player which also led to a DQ. I am sure there are others as strange as these.

What other game allows the fans at home to blow the whistle on a player that leads to a DQ because of what is seen on TV?

Wie screwed up and paid for it as written. The game however does should move forward some with the scoring rules and how they are recorded IMO but the golfing world probably interprets my view as unnecessary.

When was the last time a rule of golf was amended or is it more the USGA publishes legal and illegal equipment suggestions...eg the trampoline effect being outlawed on illegal clubs.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by docicu3

After the next round??? Wie wasn't informed apparently until she finished play the NEXT day. You know a hell of a lot more about this game than I but Kev that seems pretty arbitrary. Although the game has past precedent for retroactive rule enforcement.

A couple strange ones I vaguely remember and help me out golf fans for accuracy. I seem to remember a case where a viewer at home on a Saturday telecast called into to inquire about some player laying down a towel in a bunker or hazzard under his knee before playng his next shot which was a) viewed as improving his lie (2 shot penalty) and thus b) he signed an incorrect scorecard and was DQ'd and may have either been leading or near the top when the offense occurred.

The other was also a meddling viewer calling in about a double hit that was caught in tape but not enforced by the player which also led to a DQ. I am sure there are others as strange as these.

What other game allows the fans at home to blow the whistle on a player that leads to a DQ because of what is seen on TV?

Wie screwed up and paid for it as written. The game however does should move forward some with the scoring rules and how they are recorded IMO but the golfing world probably interprets my view as unnecessary.

When was the last time a rule of golf was amended or is it more the USGA publishes legal and illegal equipment suggestions...eg the trampoline effect being outlawed on illegal clubs.

Craig Stadler, who used the towel under a tree because he didn't want to get his pants dirty.

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by docicu3

After the next round??? Wie wasn't informed apparently until she finished play the NEXT day. You know a hell of a lot more about this game than I but Kev that seems pretty arbitrary. Although the game has past precedent for retroactive rule enforcement.

That was because they didn't want to cause a big scene right in the middle of the golf course, by pulling her out in the middle of the round. They caught it right after she teed off the next day. Most pro DQ's I can recall of, they were informed the next day, but before their tee time.
I've actually DQ'd an opponent in a high school match before (guy hit his tee shot to unplayable, so was playing 3 from the tee, three putted and said he took a 5 on a 410yd par 4, that our golf coach said to play as a par 5 if tee shot wasn't in the fairway and within 160 of the hole. No way was I letting that go!)