Cubs get HARDEN

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah those pitchers that A's get rid of really excell in other places...Like Zito, Mulder...even Hudson hasnt been nearly as effective outside of Oakland.

Do you really think they have a chance to compete down the stretch? They are 6 behind the Angels and have no shot to get the Wild Card. They get a good young (22) lefty and some replacement parts for Harden who has never had a full season without getting hurt and a pitcher that they dont need and who has very little value alone.

OTTH, This is a great deal for the Cubs IF Harden stays healthy. And at least they have Gaudin to fill in if he doesnt. Gaudin is about as average as you can be. He does have 4 errors in 62 innings this year which is pretty bad for a pitcher.

Yes,they had a chance at the Wild Card(3 1/2 back,) and we aren't even to the Allstar break. Probable? No..Chance..yes. Your saying that they have no shot at it is a lie, a poor opinion, or an exaggeration....I have no idea why you bring up the pitchers Oakland used to have. Fact is they did good in Oakland. It's a huge ballpark with a lot of foul territory. They may still have been doing well there if Oakland still had them. Now, lets talk about what the A's are getting. The main player is a starting pitcher who has finished 7 innings 1 time, and it doesn't count (cuz against Dodger s-h-i-t bats.) He is routinely throwing 111-120 pitches, and going out after 5 or 6 innings. His 4 wins were all at home against bad road teams(3 of which are in the NL WEST ) The only reason the A's are making this deal is to get people they won't have to pay much for 5 years. These are their whore ways. They get young pitchers that they don't have to pay, and they let them play in a park that suits pitchers well. Commissioner should veto the trade, and tell that A's organization to "compete you filthy whores." Are you, or are you not the Chucksta who said this Andruw Jones was gunna hit 31 home runs? All while having to play half his games in the tough hitting yard called Dodger Stadium? What say you? He has 50 strike outs in less than 150 at bats. He has 2 home runs. Now you pat the A's on the back for being good at whore activity.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

"OTTH, This is a great deal for the Cubs IF Harden stays healthy. And at least they have Gaudin to fill in if he doesnt. "

If I want something sold, I know where to go. Somehow I knew you could make it good for both parties involved. Did you ever consider law school? You a twister.

[declansharbor]

Does Bob Bean still run that ship out there?

and they have absolute no shot whatsoever to catch the Angels...What a well rounded team the Angels are...

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

Does Bob Bean still run that ship out there?

Yes, only this pimp could do this, and then say that the organization isn't selling. Of course ya selling (ya pimp.) He and De PODESTA are stink-pool scum.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yes, only this pimp could do this, and then say that the organization isn't selling. Of course ya selling (ya pimp.) He and De PODESTA are stink-pool scum.

I thought he was one of the ones that knew what it was they were doing...

Thought wrong I suppose.

All of this a moot point as they weren't true contenders for OCT anyways.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

I thought he was one of the ones that knew what it was they were doing...

Thought wrong I suppose.

All of this a moot point as they weren't true contenders for OCT anyways.

They are 3 1/2 out of the Wild Card. What if you an A's fan,and saw them give up a pitcher that has started 13 times this year(and the team won 9 out of those 13 starts.) In the 4 starts in which the A's lost, he gave up how many earned runs? 0,1,2, and 2. Oh fck yea, this is an unnecessary part of their team, right? The guy has given up 20 earned runs in 13 starts. How the fck they can give that to anybody is sick.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They are 3 1/2 out of the Wild Card. What if you an A's fan,and saw them give up a pitcher that has started 13 times this year(and the team won 9 out of those 13 starts.) In the 4 starts in which the A's lost, he gave up how many earned runs? 0,1,2, and 2. Oh fck yea, this is an unnecessary part of their team, right?

I'd be one red hot redskin...Keep in mind I endured the Ed Wade years.

Was it a fire sale move or to free up room for some up and comers or what?? Im not too privy to teh situation other than to know they gave up above adequete arms.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yes,they had a chance at the Wild Card(3 1/2 back,) and we aren't even to the Allstar break. Probable? No..Chance..yes. Your saying that they have no shot at it is a lie, a poor opinion, or an exaggeration....I have no idea why you bring up the pitchers Oakland used to have. Fact is they did good in Oakland. It's a huge ballpark with a lot of foul territory. They may still have been doing well there if Oakland still had them. Now, lets talk about what the A's are getting. The main player is a starting pitcher who has finished 7 innings 1 time, and it doesn't count (cuz against Dodger s-h-i-t bats.) He is routinely throwing 111-120 pitches, and going out after 5 or 6 innings. His 4 wins were all at home against bad road teams(3 of which are in the NL WEST ) The only reason the A's are making this deal is to get people they won't have to pay much for 5 years. These are their whore ways. They get young pitchers that they don't have to pay, and they let them play in a park that suits pitchers well. Commissioner should veto the trade, and tell that A's organization to "compete you filthy whores." Are you, or are you not the Chucksta who said this Andruw Jones was gunna hit 31 home runs? All while having to play half his games in the tough hitting yard called Dodger Stadium? What say you? He has 50 strike outs in less than 150 at bats. He has 2 home runs. Now you pat the A's on the back for being good at whore activity.

You think they are going to catch Boston, or Tampa or the Angels? Why not get rid of a guy who does nothing but breakdown for a live 22 year old guy, a guy who may yet turn it around (Murton) and a couple of guys for depth? They HAVE NO CHANCE to make the playoffs. They have played far above their talent level this far and Beane knows it wont last. He has a proven track record of getting rid of players at their peak, they usually go the other way when they leave. That they dont have the finances to compete against the bigger market teams is widely known. And why cant a trade work well for both teams? Ever heard of Volquez for Hamilton? Using the A Jones example kind of makes my point for me. That teams are better off getting RID OF high priced talent and going with the young guys...you know like Tampa and Minnesota?

[Scav]

Scuds, the Cubs didn't give up much in this deal. Patterson is GARBAGE, he is no better then his brother, except he is horrible at defense, Murton is servicable, and should get his shot to prove his so-called abilities now, I was never sold, and Gallagher is 'promising'. Cubs have the best doctors out there, HELL, they got Kerry Wood's shoulder to just magically heal, they might do wonders with Harden. And also, just imagine the psyche of Harden now, he knows he pitches well this year, that he will get PAID from the Cubs, he will get #1 type money and not have to be a #1.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Scav

Scuds, the Cubs didn't give up much in this deal.

A's sure didn't get any proven talent, and they gave up a lot of proven talent. The A's want to get guys that have about 5 years until they have to pay them well. They love that. They gather them up and what they almost always get is some of the pitchers flourish in that pitcher's park. What they don't get on the cheap is enough playoff quality hitting to go anywhere special. They try to buy it with free agent gambles, and it rarely works(except for 2006.) Even in 2006, in the playoffs, once Thomas slumped, they had nowhere else to go. Their other playoff quality hitter did well(Bradley,) but their Walmart shopper hitters (their 500k a year types ) were flops at the plate. The main thing is that this guy running the show is filth. Treats underlings like crap, and has no loyalty. He will never get rings. So, that bitch can keep thinking he is doing something special, but he isn't. He keeps going nowhere, and is so proud that they are close to being something. No, you aren't close to being anything. Every time you get something you give it away, and then fkn lie n' say ya ain't selling. Your selling. You're a whore. Anything special you have is given away for not much. That's a whore. He's already folding up tent on the year(before the Allstar break.) Were they gunna win the Wild Card? After seeing them win practically every game in August 2006, I wouldn't of counted them out yet. The thing is that this whore is in such a hurry to move on to the future. If you think this guy has winning a ring on his mind, then you are insane. He never makes moves to do that. He gets a cheap team that plays decently, and nothing more. There is no maybe. They make no effort to gather enough talent to get a ring.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

A's sure didn't get any proven talent, and they gave up a lot of proven talent. The A's want to get guys that have about 5 years until they have to pay them well. They love that. They gather them up and what they almost always get is some of the pitchers flourish in that pitcher's park. What they don't get on the cheap is enough playoff quality hitting to go anywhere special. They try to buy it with free agent gambles, and it rarely works(except for 2006.) Even in 2006, in the playoffs, once Thomas slumped, they had nowhere else to go. Their other playoff quality hitter did well(Bradley,) but their Walmart shopper hitters (their 500k a year types ) were flops at the plate. The main thing is that this guy running the show is filth. Treats underlings like crap, and has no loyalty. He will never get rings. So, that bitch can keep thinking he is doing something special, but he isn't. He keeps going nowhere, and is so proud that they are close to being something. No, you aren't close to being anything. Every time you get something you give it away, and then fkn lie n' say ya ain't selling. Your selling. You're a whore. Anything special you have is given away for not much. That's a whore. He's already folding up tent on the year(before the Allstar break.) Were they gunna win the Wild Card? After seeing them win practically every game in August 2006, I wouldn't of counted them out yet. The thing is that this whore is in such a hurry to move on to the future. If you think this guy has winning a ring on his mind, then you are insane. He never makes moves to do that. He gets a cheap team that plays decently, and nothing more. There is no maybe. They make no effort to gather enough talent to get a ring.

You could surely say that he didnt get enough for the 2 guys that he gave up but it is a classic case of selling high in the case of Harden. The guy is hurt so much you arent going to get a really top prospect. The truth is that because the club will have an option for next year, Hendry is off the hook if Harden gets hurt as he can just release him without being on the hook for any of the money. If he pitches well then the guy is a genius. It is really a no lose for the Cubs unless Murton turns it around (which is not that much of a stretch and/or Gallagher turns into an ace(which is more of a stretch) and Harden gets hurt (because if he doesnt he is very good but that is really hard to believe he wont) and Gaudin finds pitching home games at Wrigley and a bunch of away games at Milwaukee and Houston a lot less appealing than home games at Oakland and road games in Seattle and Anaheim.

You may think Beane is an idiot(of course you would be incorrect) or a bad guy but he simply does not make many mistakes. Oakland regularly has had a contender and has regularly had to revamp the roster and yet continues to never bottom out. That he is playing for 2010 when he will have a boatload of top prospect ready a la Tampa is hardly a bad move. You do understand that he works for someone else who pays the bills right? That Oakland is not a big market and is at a competitive disadvantage and has to be creative? Imagine if he had done what you propose and kept Zito, and Giambi, and Hudson , and Mulder and Giambi (the other one), etc? That would be a ****, over the hill, giant salary team going nowhere. If you want to say that he should have gotten better players, fine. But there is no doubt that the guy knows what he is doing, unlike your guys in LA.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And why cant a trade work well for both teams?

Because 2 teams with records well over .500 are exchanging players of unequal value. If the A's had a losing record, then it wouldn't be a big deal to cut salary for the rest of the year. How can you advertise to people in the Bay Area to come out for the 1st part of next season when the G.M. gives some of the best talent away while being 9 games over .500? Fact is the fans want a good team more than the G.M. does. He is lucky an A's fan hasn't killed him already. THEIR FANS WOULD HAVE TO BE MASOCHISTS TO PUT UP WITH THIS HERE.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Because 2 teams with records well over .500 are exchanging players of unequal value. If the A's had a losing record, then it wouldn't be a big deal to cut salary for the rest of the year. How can you advertise to people in the Bay Area to come out for the 1st part of next season when the G.M. gives some of the best talent away while being 9 games over .500? Fact is the fans want a good team more than the G.M. does. He is lucky an A's fan hasn't killed him already. THEIR FANS WOULD HAVE TO BE MASOCHISTS TO PUT UP WITH THIS HERE.

I will be sure to bring this thread back when Harden hits the DL. You may be the only person outside of the players moms who think that Oakland could #1 make the playoffs and #2 win more than 1 game in them if by some miracle the red Sox and Angels planes crashed into each other. Nobody thought they would win 70 games THIS year. Doesnt the guy get credit for putting together a team that has vastly outperformed expectations? If you put a team together based on the fans desires you lose. How will the yankees feel in 2 more years when they have Posada on the payroll and he is lounging on the beach in PR? Sell high, buy low. Harden blows up next start and guess what? You get nothing for him.

[Cannon Shell]

Harden has pitched 277 innings the last 4 years. He has made 13, 4, 9, 19 starts the last 4 years. He makes 4 million this year, 1/2 of what has already been paid. Gaugin makes 1.7 million 1/2 of which was already paid. This is more a case of selling high than a salary dump considering he wasnt making much anyway. He wasnt going to be considered a class A free agent so the draft pick they would receive for him would not be that great anyway. There is no way that Beane was goign to re-sign this guy for big money (and he shouldnt)anyway and unless you are delusional, they wont be WS contenders next year either.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Harden has pitched 277 innings the last 4 years. He has made 13, 4, 9, 19 starts the last 4 years. He makes 4 million this year, 1/2 of what has already been paid. Gaugin makes 1.7 million 1/2 of which was already paid. This is more a case of selling high than a salary dump considering he wasnt making much anyway. He wasnt going to be considered a class A free agent so the draft pick they would receive for him would not be that great anyway. There is no way that Beane was goign to re-sign this guy for big money (and he shouldnt)anyway and unless you are delusional, they wont be WS contenders next year either.

As long as this guy is around, then the A's can't get to the World Series. They could get to the playoffs, but not to the World Series. You say who picked them to win anything this year? I picked them to win their division. They are 5 out of the division, and 3 1/2 out of the Wild Card. They are 8 games above .500. I think it's too early to toss in the towel. Your whole fck the fans thing is great if these moves ever pay off. They don't. They just keep them decent, but never above that. What you're really saying is that A's fans are suckers for coming out, because this whore keeps getting rid of his good players. I'm in the middle. You support extremes routinely. I was against the Andruw singing because it was obvious he had lost ability, and there was zero value paying him that to hit .220( as we see he can't even do that.) I also am against the opposite extreme of simply never wanting to pay good players. The Cubs and Cards are getting value for their money. The Dodgers and Yankees don't get value for their money, and that's why they are where they are at. Boston is paying an awful lot, and getting their moneysworth, but they also are very lucky this century( with free agents.) I don't know what you're talking about when you say they would get nothing for Harden (if he got hurt.) He has given them their moneysworth. They are paying him a low 4-5 million. That's inexpensive enough that they should of let him play until the middle of next season before cashing out like whores. I don't think you value fans much, and maybe that's the reason Oakland has the problems with finances that they do. There are only so many people willing to be masochists. That's what an A's fan would have to be. Yea, so what if Harden got hurt? It's not like they got anything for him. You're missing that part. The Gallagher is not getting past 5-6 innings, and routinely throws 111-120 in those short amount of innings. Means he has not got the accuracy he needs to get it done. For this they give up Harden n' Gaudin? Gaudin wasn't mop up in the summer of 2006. He is gunna help the Cubs.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Take a long time before you get back your G.M. CHUCK title. When Andruw retires, then out of sight out of mind. Until then, your pulling that fatboy's sled. You say buy low sell hi? What is that there signing you encouraged? Buy sh-t pay hi? I don't bring it up out of choice. I watch this sh-t whif a couple times a game. Be happy you don't have to see it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

As long as this guy is around, then the A's can't get to the World Series. They could get to the playoffs, but not to the World Series. You say who picked them to win anything this year? I picked them to win their division. They are 5 out of the division, and 3 1/2 out of the Wild Card. They are 8 games above .500. I think it's too early to toss in the towel. Your whole fck the fans thing is great if these moves ever pay off. They don't. They just keep them decent, but never above that. What you're really saying is that A's fans are suckers for coming out, because this whore keeps getting rid of his good players. I'm in the middle. You support extremes routinely. I was against the Andruw singing because it was obvious he had lost ability, and there was zero value paying him that to hit .220( as we see he can't even do that.) I also am against the opposite extreme of simply never wanting to pay good players. The Cubs and Cards are getting value for their money. The Dodgers and Yankees don't get value for their money, and that's why they are where they are at. Boston is paying an awful lot, and getting their moneysworth, but they also are very lucky this century( with free agents.) I don't know what you're talking about when you say they would get nothing for Harden (if he got hurt.) He has given them their moneysworth. They are paying him a low 4-5 million. That's inexpensive enough that they should of let him play until the middle of next season before cashing out like whores. I don't think you value fans much, and maybe that's the reason Oakland has the problems with finances that they do. There are only so many people willing to be masochists. That's what an A's fan would have to be. Yea, so what if Harden got hurt? It's not like they got anything for him. You're missing that part. The Gallagher is not getting past 5-6 innings, and routinely throws 111-120 in those short amount of innings. Means he has not got the accuracy he needs to get it done. For this they give up Harden n' Gaudin? Gaudin wasn't mop up in the summer of 2006. He is gunna help the Cubs.

Your arguement is lame. Beane is selling the guy while he is healthy and getting back a good prospect in Gallagher. Gallagher is 22. Do you know how many 22 year olds are pitching in the majors and doing well? About 5. Gallagher has neither a high walk rate or high BA against. How many innings should he be pitching. He was 27-12 in the minors with a 2.70 era as a 18-21 year old. he has never had a high walk rate. There is no guarantees that he will become John Danks next year but thats what happens with young pitchers.
"So what if he gets hurt?" That makes you a great GM...The guy ALWAYS gets hurt. He has pitched one complete season out of 6 seasons. he is a ticking time bomb. They get a possible number 3 or 2 starter who is 22 and Murton who may still be ok for a guy who the last 3 years has started 25 games and a mop up guy. That just doesnt seem too bad. As a matter of fact there is a better chance of those 2 guys helping the A's than the other 2 did. Gaudin was a mop up man for a reason. Because the A's have a bunch of pitchers that are better than him. Gallagher's best may never be equal to Harden's best but there is a strong chance that we dont see much of Harden's best.
I said that the signing of Jones by the Dodgers was a good move because they didnt have to sign him long term. He was terrible and got hurt. At least they dont have to pay him past next year. It was still an acceptable risk.