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#1
07-06-2008, 08:19 AM
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I've been around way too long and looked at way too many horses and pedigrees to buy into something like that - and I'm shocked beyond belief you seem to buy into it to some extent. The examples could go on for hundreds of pages. Look at a horse like Kip Deville - who's like the consensus top turf horse in the land right now. He's a Roan. KD's sire Kipling is a bay and his dam Klondike Kaytie is a roan. He took after his dam in color. She was 17-for-47 lifetime in dirt sprints, 3-for-13 lifetime in dirt routes, and never once hit the board in 3 career turf starts. Her figures were much better on dirt - and her siblings all failed in their turf races. He didn't take after his sires color - but his sire was 2-for-5 on turf, 3-for-22 on dirt, and bred for turf on top and bottom. 
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#2
07-06-2008, 08:26 AM
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Using a horse that is basically a freak to back up your side of the argument really strengths your case.
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Just more nebulous nonsense from BBB
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#3
07-06-2008, 08:31 AM
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I just used him because he's the consensus #1 ranked turf horse right now - and he's a grey who has one grey parent and one non-grey parent.
Like I said - we could go on for hundreds of pages with this. I'd just like a link with an explanation and evidence.
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#4
07-06-2008, 08:37 AM
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You would like a link? Unlike you, I actually learn a lot from talking to educated people at the racetrack. I know you're only like thirteen, and don't understand the world outside of the internet, but most people don't talk in links. There are a lot of different theories, many without links even, and there is usually a differing amount of validity to them, but just because you ( or I ) don't necessarily agree with them doesn't make them compltely discountable. You would like a link. Funny stuff.
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Just more nebulous nonsense from BBB
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#5
07-06-2008, 08:52 AM
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I just want to hear a rational case made for what you said. The original comment was about a horse sired by El Prado. None of El Prado's best offspring (Artie Schiller, Kitten's Joy, Medeglia D' Oro, and Borrego) were grey. However, his millionaire son Chindi was a grey with identical color. Chindi was 77-18-13-23 lifetime on the dirt - with earnings of over 998K. He ran 4 times on turf - and never once hit the board. Discreet Treasure is bred for turf on top and bottom - and is very much likely to be a better turf horse. However, I just don't believe that has anything to do with his sires skin color.
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#6
07-06-2008, 09:04 AM
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Link that explains some of points on horse color
__________________
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.
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#7
07-06-2008, 09:49 AM
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this is highly entertaining.
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#8
07-06-2008, 10:05 AM
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Chindi was such a neat horse!
__________________
Tod Marks Photo - Daybreak over Oklahoma
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#9
07-06-2008, 08:45 AM
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I think the horse beat a horrendous field. He had a long break in has published works, his fastest work was in Jan in fla. then they had to stop and got him going again 5 months later. Perhaps that will be the issue that makes him a bet against. He is a real large colt and very good looking, the whole family from the mare has been good with of course the brilliant Discreet Cat and the early ok half sisters have since been bred and produced immediately. Apparently the colt has a lot going for him. I believe that the idea that all trainers only start them on turf if they are slow is a bit over rated some trainers think its a better way to introduce young horses to the sport then the main track. A half to Disreet Cat who the owner grabbed 5 mil for after a main track romp didn't make a bunch of sense debutting on grass.
Well the horse already has any appointment with mares in the future. He is only racing now to see which ones he will be attending to in a 18 months the special ones or the ones could have been special.
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#10
07-08-2008, 03:04 PM
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Kip Deville and his dam, Klondike Kaytie are both grey, not roan. Most any thoroughbred that people would say are roan, are probably a chestnut with sabino or rabicano markings that make them look roan or they are just grey. However, I am baffled by the statement about Discreet Treasure taking on El Prado's grey gene having anything to do with him being a turf horse. I always thought that would have to do more with his foot size and shape and the way he travels. I actually called a few people I know that breed and that work for some major farms, and nobody could give me a real answer though. Some thought it was non-sense, while some thought maybe it could have some truth to it. Maybe someone going for a PHD can take a look at it and have a nice thesis project...
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#11
07-08-2008, 03:11 PM
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According to her papers - Klondike Kaytie is a roan. Kip Deville is classified as grey/Roan - as are two of his half siblings by a pair of different sires.
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#12
07-08-2008, 03:40 PM
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From someone who knows a lot more about this stuff than me, for what it's worth:
Gray/roan and chestnut colors are both recessive genes (i.e., both parents have to contribute their respective side for the color to be as such.) Neither have a direct correlation to physical performance contribution from one side or the other.
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
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#13
07-29-2008, 11:58 AM
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Grey is not a color at all, but (genetically) a "modifier." "Grey" causes continued depigmentation of darker colored hair. http://www.equinecolor.com/grey.html Roan is a color pattern entirely unrelated to grey. A roan is born roan and stays the same (with some variation for winter/summer coats etc.) throught it's life. Roans typically have less roaning (therefore darker coats on) legs and heads. http://www.equinecolor.com/roan.html Some breeders do look for physical resemblance to a parent to project aptitude. I recall reading about Secretariat's first crop and one of the concerns was that Sec wasn't "stamping" his get. They didn't look like him. It was considered a negative that his offspring bore far more resemblance to their respective dams than to Big Red. Breeders took it as a sign that they wouldn't have near his talent. Interestingly, his first good son, General Assmbly DID look like Sec. Of course Risen Star looked nothing like his sire, so there! Discreet Cat's brother is entered as an MTO so they clearly are not looking for a grass race for him now.
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RIP Monroe.
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#14
07-29-2008, 12:38 PM
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#15
08-08-2008, 04:41 PM
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Sunday at Saratoga:
10th (5:56) 1 1/8 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Allowance Optional Claiming ($75,000) | Purse: $84,000 Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med. 1 Dr. Pleasure Velasquez C 120 L 2 Discreet Treasure Prado E S 117 L 3 Shekinah Leparoux J R 117 $75,000 L 4 Encanto Dominguez R A 117 L 5 Premium Gold Albarado R J 119 L 6 Squeeze Now Desormeaux K J 120 L 7 Screen to Screen Velazquez J R 117 L 8 Optimistic Steve Espinoza J L 120 L
__________________
Tod Marks Photo - Daybreak over Oklahoma
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#16
08-08-2008, 05:01 PM
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How many of these runners have the same color as their sires?
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#17
08-10-2008, 09:37 PM
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Interesting race. i was thinking of this thread and wondering who had the winner.
Dr. Pleasure put in a monster performance if anyone missed it and looks like he might finally live up to the promise he showed a few years back. We will see.
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