Pacific Classic

Originally Posted by Gander

Well now that Flower Alley has lost any chance he ever had at HOY, there is only Bernardini to worry about for those honors.

I told Kev that if English Channel had won the Arl Million and went on to win the BC Turf, he may have a realistic shot at it.

English Channel ran a good race Saturday. But when you let a horse that is as experienced as The Tin Man go to an easy lead then you arent going to catch him. With all that said, English Channel is prob the 4th best turf horse in the country right now.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

English Channel ran a good race Saturday. But when you let a horse that is as experienced as The Tin Man go to an easy lead then you arent going to catch him. With all that said, English Channel is prob the 4th best turf horse in the country right now.

whos the top 3 EB?

Originally Posted by GPK

whos the top 3 EB?

My top turf horses in the US right now are

1) Gorella
2) Showing Up
3) Cacique
4) English Channel

Now you could always Flip Flop 3 and 4. But when you make all things equal, I think that Gorella is the best turf horse right now. Kind of like the best pound per pund turf horse so to speak.

[Gander]

The Tin Man just spanked Cacique and Eng Channel and he doesnt get in this list?

Originally Posted by Gander

The Tin Man just spanked Cacique and Eng Channel and he doesnt get in this list?

Not yet. I mean that was a perfect race for The Tin Man. I think when you rank horses to have to take past performances, recent races, how races were raced etc etc. The Tin Man got to dictate the exact race he wanted. Put another horse on the lead with him and I dont think he wins last Saturday. But another performance by him like last Saturday would put him on top of the list. I cant ignore what he has done, but one race doesnt make it for me.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

The Tin Man just spanked Cacique and Eng Channel and he doesnt get in this list?

Tim...I hardly call that a spanking. You could have put a decent $50-$75K claimer in front of them with those fractions and they wouldn't have caught him either. IMO...that race was nothing buts other jockeys letting Tin Man get away with slow fractions....plain and simple.

Originally Posted by GPK

Tim...I hardly call that a spanking. You could have put a decent $50-$75K claimer in front of them with those fractions and they wouldn't have caught him either. IMO...that race was nothing buts other jockeys letting Tin Man get away with slow fractions....plain and simple.

Exactly GPK. A perfect race for The Tin Man.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Exactly GPK. A perfect race for The Tin Man.

yeah....you can toss that race completely. The horses that ran 1-2-3 the whole way finished 1-2-4.

NOTHING AT ALL against the winner. I love seeing that old fella out there winning races...its great for the sport..

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by GPK

Tim...I hardly call that a spanking. You could have put a decent $50-$75K claimer in front of them with those fractions and they wouldn't have caught him either. IMO...that race was nothing buts other jockeys letting Tin Man get away with slow fractions....plain and simple.

The Tin Man outfoxed the field. He should be #1 or 2 on the turf now.

As far as the PC, I'm a fan of Papi Chullo and I hope he wins. I'm not saying bet him.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by sumitas

The Tin Man outfoxed the field. He should be #1 or 2 on the turf now.

Espinoza outfoxed the field and the other jocks let him get away with murder. I said it before...you could have put a good $75K claimer in the same spot and he would have had enough left in the tank after going that slow to hold them off. Just a brilliant job by the jock to take advantage of the others not wanting to put pressure on him.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

My top turf horses in the US right now are

1) Gorella
2) Showing Up
3) Cacique
4) English Channel

Now you could always Flip Flop 3 and 4. But when you make all things equal, I think that Gorella is the best turf horse right now. Kind of like the best pound per pund turf horse so to speak.

WOW....OK....I love Gorella...I really do...but she had the PERFECT set up on Saturday. Put her in the Arlington Million and let her lolly gag in the back of the field and let her try closing into those fractions....No way....she doesnt finish top 5 in that race.

Showing UP...I have no idea....until he faces olders...still up in the air.

Cacique over EC?? Cacique has finished in front of EC 2 times:

1st time: Manhattan...MY God EB...have you seen the fractions they ran in that race???? 1/2 in :51......3/4 1:16.60.....1 mile in 1:40...EC was also carry 2 more lbs that day and was beaten a 1/2 length. 2lbs equates to more than 1/2 length over the distance of a 1 1/4 race.

2nd time: Arlington Million...not quite as slow as the Manhattan, but EC was 3 wide the entire race vs 2 wide for Cacique. You are intelligent enough to know that 2 wide vs. 3 wide for a race of that distance is a HUGE difference.

EC has 3 wins from 5 starts this year...with 2 grade 1's
Cacique has 1 win from 5 starts this year...with 1 grade 1.

Originally Posted by GPK

WOW....OK....I love Gorella...I really do...but she had the PERFECT set up on Saturday. Put her in the Arlington Million and let her lolly gag in the back of the field and let her try closing into those fractions....No way....she doesnt finish top 5 in that race.

Showing UP...I have no idea....until he faces olders...still up in the air.

Cacique over EC?? Cacique has finished in front of EC 2 times:

1st time: Manhattan...MY God EB...have you seen the fractions they ran in that race???? 1/2 in :51......3/4 1:16.60.....1 mile in 1:40...EC was also carry 2 more lbs that day and was beaten a 1/2 length. 2lbs equates to more than 1/2 length over the distance of a 1 1/4 race.

2nd time: Arlington Million...not quite as slow as the Manhattan, but EC was 3 wide the entire race vs 2 wide for Cacique. You are intelligent enough to know that 2 wide vs. 3 wide for a race of that distance is a HUGE difference.

EC has 3 wins from 5 starts this year...with 2 grade 1's
Cacique has 1 win from 5 starts this year...with 1 grade 1.

Like I said, making everything equal, Gorella is the best turf horse right now. You just can pick one race out and give that as an example. That isnt fair. You have to look at the entire resume. I also dont use weight as an excuse as to why a horse doesnt win unless the weight is absurd (5 lbs or more). And i also said you could flip flop numbers 3 and 4. But I truly believe that Cacique has more upswing that English Channel.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Like I said, making everything equal, Gorella is the best turf horse right now. You just can pick one race out and give that as an example. That isnt fair. You have to look at the entire resume. I also dont use weight as an excuse as to why a horse doesnt win unless the weight is absurd (5 lbs or more). And i also said you could flip flop numbers 3 and 4. But I truly believe that Cacique has more upswing that English Channel.

The same Gorella that finished 5th behind EC in the Woodford Reserve?

Originally Posted by GPK

The same Gorella that finished 5th behind EC in the Woodford Reserve?

Yes. Again, you have to make everything equal here GPK. Just like when people said the Roy Jones Jr is the best lb per lb fighter, Gorella is the best lb for lb turf horse right now.