Dutrow running one off 2 days rest

[Linny]

Remember, the Derby Trial used to really be a KY Derby prep and was run on the Tuesday of Derby week.
Man O War began is career on June 6th and returned on June 9th. His third start was June 21st and his 4th was June 23rd! He then ran on July 4th and was laid off til Saratoga. There he ran on Aug 2nd, 13th, 23rd and 30th.
His schedule was nothing out for the ordinary for a colt (even a top class colt) of his era.
I'm sure with a bit more time and a copy of Champions I could find plenty more.

As for Golden Man. He was (is) a useful race horse but was hardly a star in the making. Most "good looking" 3yo's end up in modest company at best. The horse that nearly beat Lion Heart in NJ a few years back broke down for a $5k tag last summer.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Linny

Remember, the Derby Trial used to really be a KY Derby prep and was run on the Tuesday of Derby week.
Man O War began is career on June 6th and returned on June 9th. His third start was June 21st and his 4th was June 23rd! He then ran on July 4th and was laid off til Saratoga. There he ran on Aug 2nd, 13th, 23rd and 30th.
His schedule was nothing out for the ordinary for a colt (even a top class colt) of his era.
I'm sure with a bit more time and a copy of Champions I could find plenty more.

As for Golden Man. He was (is) a useful race horse but was hardly a star in the making. Most "good looking" 3yo's end up in modest company at best. The horse that nearly beat Lion Heart in NJ a few years back broke down for a $5k tag last summer.

My Snookie's Boy

[sumitas]

My question is. How can it hurt a horse to have at least 2 weeks between starts ? It can certainly help a horse. Especially Unrequited.

[Linny]

I have no idea if the horse in question broke down because of the short rest or not. Certainly he wouldn't have done so in his stall, but that means nothing.
He probably would be alive now had he not raced but was he going to break next time anyhow? Can a potentially fatal "pending injury" be fixed with 2 weeks off? Based on the worktab, he was trying to get the horse claimed and kick the broken can down the lane to the next unsuspecting trainer. Now, I agree that that's neither "nice" nor entirely humane but Rick isn't the only one guilty of such stuff. It happens all the time and is done by elite barns as well as modest claiming operations.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Linny

I have no idea if the horse in question broke down because of the short rest or not. Certainly he wouldn't have done so in his stall, but that means nothing.
He probably would be alive now had he not raced but was he going to break next time anyhow? Can a potentially fatal "pending injury" be fixed with 2 weeks off? Based on the worktab, he was trying to get the horse claimed and kick the broken can down the lane to the next unsuspecting trainer. Now, I agree that that's neither "nice" nor entirely humane but Rick isn't the only one guilty of such stuff. It happens all the time and is done by elite barns as well as modest claiming operations.

This type of activity needs to be eliminated from racing. It is a recipe for breakdowns and cannot be accepted by what I hope will be a new national racing body that will enforce rules for honesty and health.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Linny

I have no idea if the horse in question broke down because of the short rest or not. Certainly he wouldn't have done so in his stall, but that means nothing.
He probably would be alive now had he not raced but was he going to break next time anyhow? Can a potentially fatal "pending injury" be fixed with 2 weeks off? Based on the worktab, he was trying to get the horse claimed and kick the broken can down the lane to the next unsuspecting trainer. Now, I agree that that's neither "nice" nor entirely humane but Rick isn't the only one guilty of such stuff. It happens all the time and is done by elite barns as well as modest claiming operations.

running back two days later does not happen all the time. in my database of 65,000 starters, it happened 5 times.

[TheSpyder]

I was hopeing you would weight in Jim. Any idea how those 5 did?

Spyder

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

running back two days later does not happen all the time. in my database of 65,000 starters, it happened 5 times.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

I was hopeing you would weight in Jim. Any idea how those 5 did?

Spyder

one second, one third, three out of the money.

three came from Leo O'Brien, one from Dutrow and one from Contessa.

Leo O'Brien actually sent out horses after two days rest on consecutive days last winter. so in four days he got 4 starts from two horses.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

one second, one third, three out of the money.

three came from Leo O'Brien, one from Dutrow and one from Contessa.

Leo O'Brien actually sent out horses after two days rest on consecutive days last winter. so in four days he got 4 starts from two horses.

What were the conditions, though?

Leo O'Brien and Allen Jerkens have been known to sprint a horse (assumingly as a glorified workout) in anticipation of a route race a couple of days later (Fourstars Allstar was a good example, I think he ran in the Laurel Dash and showed up a couple of days later in the International).

Its one thing to run a horse on short rest when the initial start could, at least on paper, be labeled as a "tune-up" and a whole other thing if a horse is meant to be all out in both races (which often times is not good for business).

[Linny]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

running back two days later does not happen all the time. in my database of 65,000 starters, it happened 5 times.

What I meant is that horses who have known injuries or are "ticking time bombs" are run all the time, when rest is warranted. I don't know anything about the horse in question but he looked like one that they knew had a serious issue and they ran this risk of several quick works and a couple of closely spaced races to give the claiming trainers the idea that he was a sound/fit horse, one ripe for claiming.
The other points were that this is not something that only done by "claiming trainers" and that even if this Dutrow horse had been give (say) 2 weeks rest he probably still would have broken down. It's pretty likely that he had something about to blow.

[Echo Farm]

This is heresay, and from the FOB forum, so take it with a whole shaker of salt.

Can anyone verify it?

I just talked wit the NJ State Vet - it was determined on Tuesday that Unrequited had a fractured pelvis and he was euthanized.. The vet was aware that the horse had just run the friday before at Belmont Park but said that unfortunately there were no state rules that prohibited that.. these were Unrequited's first races after a one year lay off..

http://forums.prospero.com/alexbrown...s?msg=25843.49

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Echo Farm

This is heresay, and from the FOB forum, so take it with a whole shaker of salt.

Can anyone verify it?



http://forums.prospero.com/alexbrown...s?msg=25843.49

I have no first hand information about whether the horse was euthanized but these were not his first two races of the year. He had been away about a year, but before these races, he ran in late May/early June at Belmont and/or Monmouth.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Echo Farm

This is heresay, and from the FOB forum, so take it with a whole shaker of salt.

Can anyone verify it?



http://forums.prospero.com/alexbrown...s?msg=25843.49

Found this.

Too bad...

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/du...se-euthanized/

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think what Linny was referring to was the trainer trying to get the horse claimed and not so much the 2 days. At least that is how I read it.

you could be right, and I wasn't sure either. the claiming issue was sort of added on to the main topic about quick comebacks.