Dutrow running one off 2 days rest

[ELA]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I agree with the issues you pose. But do you honestly think the owners (Jay Em Ess) will make Dutrow accountable in any meaningful way for this incident? I won't be holding my breath.

I wasn't talking about the owner holding the trainer accountable. While that might be one side, it's the other side that can turn out to be something many did not expect. You've got politicians, well known leaders of commerce and industry, high profile business leaders, and so on. If you are going to make this business dangerous to them, they will look to insulate themselves in any way, shape or form they can -- and for some, leaving the business will be the result. Sure, exceptions and norms. But you will see many drastic negative ramifications.

Owners certainly do need to hold trainers accountable. I've had trainers race back horses quicker than the norm -- one week (once) and two weeks (a few times). I questioned the trainer. I asked what I thought were the right questions. But I didn't go down there an inspect the horse myself, nor did I look for an independent second opinion from a vet. How much can and should we as owners do? It's the slippery slope.

Eric

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by ELA

I wasn't talking about the owner holding the trainer accountable. While that might be one side, it's the other side that can turn out to be something many did not expect. You've got politicians, well known leaders of commerce and industry, high profile business leaders, and so on. If you are going to make this business dangerous to them, they will look to insulate themselves in any way, shape or form they can -- and for some, leaving the business will be the result. Sure, exceptions and norms. But you will see many drastic negative ramifications.

Owners certainly do need to hold trainers accountable. I've had trainers race back horses quicker than the norm -- one week (once) and two weeks (a few times). I questioned the trainer. I asked what I thought were the right questions. But I didn't go down there an inspect the horse myself, nor did I look for an independent second opinion from a vet. How much can and should we as owners do? It's the slippery slope.

Eric

I don't expect that you go down there and do an inspection. For that matter, I've had the occasion to be at the barn and my trainer has tried to explain to me a problem (slight filling, for example) that he preceives with a horse that I own. I can rub the horse's leg, but I'm not familiar enough with the situation to appreciate the issue he perceives to be there. That's why I hire the trainer in the first case. But if he proposed to run a horse back on one day's race, I'm sure going to have some questions. If he tells me not to worry about it, and the horse breaks down, I think we would have a real problem.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I don't expect that you go down there and do an inspection. For that matter, I've had the occasion to be at the barn and my trainer has tried to explain to me a problem (slight filling, for example) that he preceives with a horse that I own. I can rub the horse's leg, but I'm not familiar enough with the situation to appreciate the issue he perceives to be there. That's why I hire the trainer in the first case. But if he proposed to run a horse back on one day's race, I'm sure going to have some questions. If he tells me not to worry about it, and the horse breaks down, I think we would have a real problem.

I agree. Do we draw a line though? Two days? Two days once a year? 1 week? And so on. Regardless, I agree.

Eric

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by ELA

I wasn't talking about the owner holding the trainer accountable. While that might be one side, it's the other side that can turn out to be something many did not expect. You've got politicians, well known leaders of commerce and industry, high profile business leaders, and so on. If you are going to make this business dangerous to them, they will look to insulate themselves in any way, shape or form they can -- and for some, leaving the business will be the result. Sure, exceptions and norms. But you will see many drastic negative ramifications.

Owners certainly do need to hold trainers accountable. I've had trainers race back horses quicker than the norm -- one week (once) and two weeks (a few times). I questioned the trainer. I asked what I thought were the right questions. But I didn't go down there an inspect the horse myself, nor did I look for an independent second opinion from a vet. How much can and should we as owners do? It's the slippery slope.

Eric

I do not think that you can penalize/suspend the owners. Some stables are lucky if they break even, now they are going to be at risk of suspensions or finacial penalties. It would just lead to people defecting from the sport. I am not saying that they are 100% innocent, but the trainers are the ones who know what the real story with the horses are. They are the ones who should have some sort of accountability.
But, the bottom line is that it would be impossible to prove anyway. These guys get slaps on the wrist for confirmed positives. Now you are going to throw the book at someone on speculation? Really what could the sport do, suspend a guy everytime a horse breaks down on a drop? Somehow if it could have been caught before the race by the track vet (who is accountable too), then maybe there could be some sort of fine/penalty levied.
It is just so fustrating, because today event just seemed so blatantly obvious.

[sumitas]

A great catch of a real travesty and tragedy by the Spyder. How can racing allow 2 races in 3 days ? I'm just dumbfounded and shocked again.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by sumitas

A great catch of a real travesty and tragedy by the Spyder. How can racing allow 2 races in 3 days ? I'm just dumbfounded and shocked again.

My third wife used to say that to me a lot.

Did you know a horse named Shannon's Hope raced 5 times in 8 days in 1963 at Northampton in Massachusettes? On a half-mile racetrack no less.

Shannon's Hope won all 5 starts.

If it weren't for Dutrow's travails, folks would have to find something else to carp about.

[letswastemoney]

Didn't Bel Air Sizzle do roughly the same thing a few weeks ago and run solidly in both races?

I have seen this done before when a horse was pulled up for some equipment reason etc...in the first race, or just won so easily that the animal did not exert itself. But right now with all the crap going on... if the horse had won, it would have been a notable wow he knows his horses.

But the animal broke its leg. And yes the outcome is very significant. It was a risky move by a guy who does care to grasp what has now become a snowballing situation. Right or wrong.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I have seen this done before when a horse was pulled up for some equipment reason etc...in the first race, or just won so easily that the animal did not exert itself. But right now with all the crap going on... if the horse had won, it would have been a notable wow he knows his horses.
But the animal broke its leg. And yes the outcome is very significant. It was a risky move by a guy who does care to grasp what has now become a snowballing situation. Right or wrong.

Point taken, but the talk would have been negative too. It would have been about the magic potion he must have to bring a horse back 2 days later and win. So to be fair it really is a no win situation for him.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

My third wife used to say that to me a lot.

Did you know a horse named Shannon's Hope raced 5 times in 8 days in 1963 at Northampton in Massachusettes? On a half-mile racetrack no less.

Shannon's Hope won all 5 starts.

If it weren't for Dutrow's travails, folks would have to find something else to carp about.

but here lately, we haven't had to look very far, or very hard, to find things we have issues with. i guess i'm always amazed tho when someone gives jokers like dutrow and asmusses a pass. it's not rumor or innuendo about these two--or biancone--it's a many times over fact that these guys cheat. they're blatant, unrepentant, and sadly, employed.