Dutrow running one off 2 days rest

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Let's not forget that Dutrow is the same trainer who ran Golden Man in stakes on consecutive days at Monmouth and Delaware a few years ago. That horse was never the same afterwards.

Respectfully Golden Man is still a horse that runs often and is making people money.. He has run a lot more then horses who have been given 90 days to recover from minor injury's..I am not defending Dutrow but your example is actually a declaration of why not as suppose to why?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Respectfully Golden Man is still a horse that runs often and is making people money.. He has run a lot more then horses who have been given 90 days to recover from minor injury's..I am not defending Dutrow but your example is actually a declaration of why not as suppose to why?

Actually, he was an up-and-coming 3YO at the time that Dutrow pulled that well-publicized stunt. He was never close to being the same horse afterwards. What is he now, a $10K claimer?

[10 pnt move up]

I am all for running horses more often then the current barns do, but two days rest is not fair IMO to the horse.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Actually, he was an up-and-coming 3YO at the time that Dutrow pulled that well-publicized stunt. He was never close to being the same horse afterwards. What is he now, a $10K claimer?

He was a juice horse then and most likely now and he is sound and races all the time STILL

[saratoga guy]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Actually, he was an up-and-coming 3YO at the time that Dutrow pulled that well-publicized stunt. He was never close to being the same horse afterwards. What is he now, a $10K claimer?

I think you're overstating the case.

Dutrow claimed Golden Man in Jan 2005 for $60K. The previous September the horse was running for $12.5K.

Subsequent to the claim the horse won a NW1 and then was an OK -- albeit distant (12 lengths) -- third in the Peter Pan.

Then he ran his back-to-back races.

So it's kind of hard to make the argument that he was a real up-and-comer in the 3YO ranks that summer.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by saratoga guy

I think you're overstating the case.

Dutrow claimed Golden Man in Jan 2005 for $60K. The previous September the horse was running for $12.5K.

Subsequent to the claim the horse won a NW1 and then was an OK -- albeit distant (12 lengths) -- third in the Peter Pan.

Then he ran his back-to-back races.

So it's kind of hard to make the argument that he was a real up-and-comer in the 3YO ranks that summer.

def. agree with that, i would never say Golden Man was a up and comer.... i remember when he ran him in those races, i forget where though... i want to say deleware for sure and maybe monmouth

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

def. agree with that, i would never say Golden Man was a up and comer.... i remember when he ran him in those races, i forget where though... i want to say deleware for sure and maybe monmouth

It was the long Branch at Monmouth and the Leonard Richards at Delaware Park the next day...both grade 3s. Ran 3rd at Monmouth and 2nd at Delaware Park the next day.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by saratoga guy

I think you're overstating the case.

Dutrow claimed Golden Man in Jan 2005 for $60K. The previous September the horse was running for $12.5K.

Subsequent to the claim the horse won a NW1 and then was an OK -- albeit distant (12 lengths) -- third in the Peter Pan.

Then he ran his back-to-back races.

So it's kind of hard to make the argument that he was a real up-and-comer in the 3YO ranks that summer.

Actually, he caught my attention that year because we owned a Suave Prospect that we had privately purchased from Farnsworth Farms. They had a ton of horses, so the tag he ran for was kind of irrelevant. They ran Imperialism for $25K as a 2YO.

In Golden Man's first race off the claim, he won a NW1X allowance score at Gulfstream, in very fast time. He was super impressive in that race, defeating subsequent Lexington Stakes winner Coin Silver. Then his owners at the time (Sandy Goldfarb and Michael Dubb) supplemented Golden Man to the Preakness for $100,000, but he was excluded from the race when it oversubscribed (Giacomo didn't scare anyone off). He ran third in the Peter Pan, where he was only 5-1 in the wagering. The rest, as they say, is history ...

[saratoga guy]

I guess it's glass-half-full vs glass-half-empty -- but I still think it's hard to make a case for Golden Man as a real up-and-comer...

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

so the tag he ran for was kind of irrelevant.

I'd go along with that if they snuck him in for a tag in the career debut, or tried to sneak him in for a tag after a dud. But Golden Man bombed in his debut for $50K. Dropped to $32K and bombed again. Was unimpressive next time at $25K. And finally broke through the maiden ranks in his second try at the $12.5K level. After that impressive win they still didn't think enough of him to go any further than $25K NW2L.

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

In Golden Man's first race off the claim, he won a NW1X allowance score at Gulfstream, in very fast time. He was super impressive in that race, defeating subsequent Lexington Stakes winner Coin Silver.

I'm not sure whether Coin Silver panned out to be a real barometer of talent.

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Then his owners at the time (Sandy Goldfarb and Michael Dubb) supplemented Golden Man to the Preakness for $100,000, but he was excluded from the race when it oversubscribed (Giacomo didn't scare anyone off). He ran third in the Peter Pan, where he was only 5-1 in the wagering.

That he was supplemented to the Preakness and went off at 5-1 in the Peter Pan are both interesting -- but the results of the races he ran in are more interesting. He finished third in the Peter Pan and the Long Branch -- both before the back-to-back efforts [the Long Branch was the first of those].

Hardly super exciting.

And the horse that won that year's Peter Pan? Oratory -- never ran again after suffering a broken bone in a subsequent workout. Only five career starts and none spaced closer than 22 days. I'd call him a real up-and-comer -- but what do we blame his subsequent non-career on?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by saratoga guy

That he was supplemented to the Preakness and went off at 5-1 in the Peter Pan are both interesting -- but the results of the races he ran in are more interesting. He finished third in the Peter Pan and the Long Branch -- both before the back-to-back efforts [the Long Branch was the first of those].

Hardly super exciting.

And the horse that won that year's Peter Pan? Oratory -- never ran again after suffering a broken bone in a subsequent workout. Only five career starts and none spaced closer than 22 days. I'd call him a real up-and-comer -- but what do we blame his subsequent non-career on?

Was he a superstar, no. However, Coin Silver did win a Grade II, and Golden Man also beat Frankel's subqesuent SW High Limit in one of the back-to-back stakes. By the fall of the same year in which he supplemented to the Preakness, Dutrow had him back in for $40,000 claimers. Dutrow runs a lot of horses back on short rest, and it invariably seems to take a lot out of them.

[ELA]

Good horse, bad horse -- no offense, but not really the issue. Dutrow does tend to run horses back quick. A lot? Some? Often? All relative terms. He does it more often than most other trainers. I hear some trainers give him credit for trying and note that after he wheels him back he gives them a more normal time off routine.

I've others say this is horrible and comments as foolish as "need the money" or something along those lines. Doesn't matter!

This one did not go well. If every other one had, this one was one too many. I think the immediate reaction in the hysterical world we see today is going to be for various people to back peddle and cover their butts.

Eric

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Respectfully Golden Man is still a horse that runs often and is making people money.. He has run a lot more then horses who have been given 90 days to recover from minor injury's..I am not defending Dutrow but your example is actually a declaration of why not as suppose to why?

This is to the end of 2007.

COZIGOLDI, 1991, Cozzene- Big Goldie by Big Spruce.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
2002 Golden Man,Dk B/,g,Suave Prospect 4 34 7 8 7 292,696 (106) 3.00
North America 2 YO Record 8 2 1 1 21,020 ( 87)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 180 ( 82)
North America Dirt Sprints 13 1 3 3 42,596 (102)
North America Dirt Routes 20 6 5 4 249,920 (106)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 1 0 0 4,640 ( 81)
DP = 2-2-7-1-0 DI = 1.67 CD = 0.42 AWD = 8.14
At 3 2nd Leonard Richards S. -G3 (300,000), 3rd Peter Pan S. -G2
(200,000), Long Branch Breeders' Cup S. -G3 (147,250)