Larry Jones gets first drug positive ever

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i wasn't talking about jones specifically. it seems that every time something happens like this, there are folks who would rather it all go away, rather than have bad press. there are cheaters in this sport, some are very high profile, with top horses on the track. but now larry jones is in the mix, and some don't want to face the fact that his horse tested over. how it happened, i don't know. but this sport allows folks like steve asmussen and rick dutrow, with countless black marks on their record, continue to do business as usual.

so, my point in the post you replied to was that it's not the media's fault if they have a story. it's this sports fault for not taking the whole drug issue more seriously-both with what should and shouldn't be allowed, as well as WHO should still be allowed.

i'm waiting, as i'm sure you are, for exactly what kind of overage they are talking about. we all know some horses are given legal meds that must have cleared by race day, and don't. now, if this is a microscopic amount, considering jones' complete lack of past positives, i'd say he should be treated lightly since it's a first offense--but only if BOTH parts of that are true.

regarding what 'racing' can do, for starters they can show the worst repeat offenders the door. maybe the rate of positives would drop with their departure.

What's not surprising is that the guys who are the big cheaters are usually the same guys who are always getting the overages. The reason is obvious. These guys are always pushing the envelope. They want to take every edge they can get whether it's with legal or illegal drugs.

What some of these guys will do is keep slightly increasing the dose of a legal drug or a milkshake until they get hit with an overage. That way they pretty much know what they can give without getting a positive. The problem is that different horses metabolize at different rates, so if they try to cut it too close they may come back with a positive. That is probably how Doug O'Neil got that positive earlier this year.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

What's not surprising is that the guys who are the big cheaters are usually the same guys who are always getting the overages. The reason is obvious. These guys are always pushing the envelope. They want to take every edge they can get whether it's with legal or illegal drugs.

What some of these guys will do is keep slightly increasing the dose of a legal drug or a milkshake until they get hit with an overage. That way they pretty much know what they can give without getting a positive. The problem is that different horses metabolize at different rates, so if they try to cut it too close they may come back with a positive. That is probably how Doug O'Neil got that positive earlier this year.

This post is dead on. Many of these "positives" with otherwise legal medications are not as innocent as several on this board would like to portray them.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

What's not surprising is that the guys who are the big cheaters are usually the same guys who are always getting the overages. The reason is obvious. These guys are always pushing the envelope. They want to take every edge they can get whether it's with legal or illegal drugs.

What some of these guys will do is keep slightly increasing the dose of a legal drug or a milkshake until they get hit with an overage. That way they pretty much know what they can give without getting a positive. The problem is that different horses metabolize at different rates, so if they try to cut it too close they may come back with a positive. That is probably how Doug O'Neil got that positive earlier this year.

no doubt in my mind that's what happened in this case as well. look at breeders for example who try to get mares in cover as early as possible, to shoot for a foal date as close to jan 1 as possible-but of course not before then-but sometimes, they get caught out when the foal comes early and they fudge the birth date. same thing.

and probably how o'neill got tagged last year as well...then there's the frankel/lasix issue-his horse (think it was intercontinental) got her shot way too close to post time, so the vet lied on the paperwork. but they got caught, purse money redistributed...pretty blatant stuff right there.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Danzig

then there's the frankel/lasix issue-his horse (think it was intercontinental) got her shot way too close to post time, so the vet lied on the paperwork. but they got caught, purse money redistributed...pretty blatant stuff right there.

Actually, Intercontinental's victory in the Palomar at Del Mar was upheld by the stewards. Furthermore, her lasix injection was 20 minutes late, still well over 3 hours from post time (in CA it must be given no later than 4 hours out). Some states, including Delaware, allow lasix administration up to 3 hours prior to post.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Actually, Intercontinental's victory in the Palomar at Del Mar was upheld by the stewards. Furthermore, her lasix injection was 20 minutes late, still well over 3 hours from post time (in CA it must be given no later than 4 hours out). Some states, including Delaware, allow lasix administration up to 3 hours prior to post.

really? last i saw, they ruled against intercontinental-maybe i missed an appeal or something.

and late is late, no excuses. i think the bigger offense was the vet lying, not the late injection.

just looked it up--they said the horse should have been scratched, but decided she didn't get an edge over her competition due to the late injection. order of finish stayed the same, but the vet was fined $750.

[PeteMugg]

If someone gets caught cheating, then it is what it is. But how sad that someone question a guy because he reached the upper tier after such a humble start. Thought that's what made this country great.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

If someone gets caught cheating, then it is what it is. But how sad that someone question a guy because he reached the upper tier after such a humble start. Thought that's what made this country great.

It is just that he was a trainer so long in KY and never even did that well at CD or KEE. He relocates to Delaware and he simply cant lose. I understand that he has much better horses now but I cant ever remember an example of a trainer that trained at a lower level track with modest success that rose so quickly to after so long. Hey, he has a damn clean record but it is as hard to understand his rapid ascension as it was to comprehend that Brady Andeson once hit 50 HR's in a year.

[PeteMugg]

Come on, Chuck, with these short fences and pitching what it is today, I'd think you could knock out 45 taters in a season.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is just that he was a trainer so long in KY and never even did that well at CD or KEE. He relocates to Delaware and he simply cant lose. I understand that he has much better horses now but I cant ever remember an example of a trainer that trained at a lower level track with modest success that rose so quickly to after so long. Hey, he has a damn clean record but it is as hard to understand his rapid ascension as it was to comprehend that Brady Andeson once hit 50 HR's in a year.

We have one of Brady's HR bats from that season in my sons room...talk about guilt without conviction. The guy won't even say he hit 50 anymore