House Subcommittee Hearings

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

Then let's all come up with an alternative solution to the following problems:

1) Drugs have weakened the breed, which in turn makes the sport less interesting and fun, which in turn means fewer new fans discover the sport.

2) Drugs produce wasky results sometimes, which in turn drives new gamblers to poker or elsewhere where they THINK they have an edge, as opposed to driving them towards horse racing, where they KNOW FOR A FACT that unless they spend 70 hours a week watching replays and taking notes, they have no edge and are at a disadvantage unless they know who is cheating with drugs. (That's one unique thing about horse racing. It may be the one gambling activity where people correctly realize that they are at such a disadvantage that they actually won't bet, as opposed to every other gambling activity where they bet anyway, or they mistakenly think they have an advantage becasue they're just that good.)

Drugs have not weakened the breed. There is zero scientific evidence that this is so.

People are not at a disadvantage betting because of drugs. This is a silly agrument. It is a variable that cant be quantified. Unless you had some inside information that some undetectable drug was going to be used in a particular race you have no advantage either. I love it when i hear that a guy can tell who's horses are drugged and whose arent.

The betting angle should be to lower takeout and stop worrying about drugs. then you will have a better chance of winning.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Drugs have not weakened the breed. There is zero scientific evidence that this is so.

People are not at a disadvantage betting because of drugs. This is a silly agrument. It is a variable that cant be quantified. Unless you had some inside information that some undetectable drug was going to be used in a particular race you have no advantage either. I love it when i hear that a guy can tell who's horses are drugged and whose arent.

The betting angle should be to lower takeout and stop worrying about drugs. then you will have a better chance of winning.

1) So you do not buy the argument that the administration of legal and illegal drugs allows horses with genetic infirmities to prosper on the track, and then go on to careers at stud where they pass on those genetic infirmities to their offspring, who pass them on to their offspring, and so on?

2) Whether or not people are at a disadvantage because of drugs is 100% irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that the sport has such an awful image because of the cheating that goes on that people are hesitant to gamble on it. I know this for a fact, and I have numerous complusively gambling friends who wouldn't set foot in a racetrack because they believe they can't win. Maybe it is a variable that can't be quantified, but that doesn't make it a non-problem.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

1) So you do not buy the argument that the administration of legal and illegal drugs allows horses with genetic infirmities to prosper on the track, and then go on to careers at stud where they pass on those genetic infirmities to their offspring, who pass them on to their offspring, and so on?

2) Whether or not people are at a disadvantage because of drugs is 100% irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that the sport has such an awful image because of the cheating that goes on that people are hesitant to gamble on it. I know this for a fact, and I have numerous complusively gambling friends who wouldn't set foot in a racetrack because they believe they can't win. Maybe it is a variable that can't be quantified, but that doesn't make it a non-problem.

1. No because I have never seen a "genetic" infimity. There is no unsoundness gene. Soundness or lack of it is caused usually by confirmation, sometimes due to other outside factors. There are so many facets to breeding horses that I am sometimes embarrased when supposedly knowledgeable people bring this up. There is no reason to believe that supposed "dependance" on a certain medication has anything to do with the ability of a sire to pass on such dependance. They will often pass on confirmation and physical flaws that have nothing to do with drugs.
2. The game has an image problem simply because it does a terrible job in the PR department. The truth is that any good Federal oversight will do in this area will be undone the first time a horse improves 20 beyer points and pays $22.00. The naysayers will be howling. It is just part of the deal

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

1. No because I have never seen a "genetic" infimity. There is no unsoundness gene. Soundness or lack of it is caused usually by confirmation, sometimes due to other outside factors. There are so many facets to breeding horses that I am sometimes embarrased when supposedly knowledgeable people bring this up. There is no reason to believe that supposed "dependance" on a certain medication has anything to do with the ability of a sire to pass on such dependance. They will often pass on confirmation and physical flaws that have nothing to do with drugs.
2. The game has an image problem simply because it does a terrible job in the PR department. The truth is that any good Federal oversight will do in this area will be undone the first time a horse improves 20 beyer points and pays $22.00. The naysayers will be howling. It is just part of the deal

So if I'm following you right, aside from PR, everything in horse racing is peachy keen?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

So if I'm following you right, aside from PR, everything in horse racing is peachy keen?

No I never said anything like that. I blast the industry as much as anyone. I also have the perspective that few have. I train on many different curcuits, I own a lot of horses, I breed mares, I buy and sell at the sales, I have worked in racetrack management, and I am not rich enough to do any of these things strictly for the fun of it. I have been involved in the business for a long time in many different areas. I am not one of these out of touch committee members. But i also can see what is happening here. I will take a flawed, as is industry over something that may become a federal minefield. If they put an across the board 3% takeout raise on all simulcast bets what do you think will happen? What do you think handle will do then? What will happen to purses when handle plunges especially if the tracks get their way with the AWD money. I will be out of a job. Sounds like doom and gloom? It can happen.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I will take a flawed, as is industry over something that may become a federal minefield. If they put an across the board 3% takeout raise on all simulcast bets what do you think will happen? What do you think handle will do then? What will happen to purses when handle plunges especially if the tracks get their way with the AWD money. I will be out of a job. Sounds like doom and gloom? It can happen.

I don't disagree. I would hope that by the end of the mess, racing will be in control of itself. A government minefield would very likely be disastrous.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

1. No because I have never seen a "genetic" infimity. There is no unsoundness gene. Soundness or lack of it is caused usually by confirmation, sometimes due to other outside factors. There are so many facets to breeding horses that I am sometimes embarrased when supposedly knowledgeable people bring this up. There is no reason to believe that supposed "dependance" on a certain medication has anything to do with the ability of a sire to pass on such dependance. They will often pass on confirmation and physical flaws that have nothing to do with drugs.
2. The game has an image problem simply because it does a terrible job in the PR department. The truth is that any good Federal oversight will do in this area will be undone the first time a horse improves 20 beyer points and pays $22.00. The naysayers will be howling. It is just part of the deal

Where besides PR do you see a problem?