Dedumbeaux's Ride

[blackthroatedwind]

Coa is being criticized her for herding Big Brown on the backstretch? Funny stuff. I guess the irony of this is being missed by most. Desormeaux has been herding and intimidating other riders with regularity. Apparently Coa shouldn't return the favor?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Coa is being criticized her for herding Big Brown on the backstretch? Funny stuff. I guess the irony of this is being missed by most. Desormeaux has been herding and intimidating other riders with regularity. Apparently Coa shouldn't return the favor?

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

What exactly is a " dirty rider? "

People comment on fragile horses these days but the animals aren't the only ones that are more genteel than the old days. If Coa is " dirty " then what about one of the greatest riders of all time, Angel Cordero?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What exactly is a " dirty rider? "

People comment on fragile horses these days but the animals aren't the only ones that are more genteel than the old days. If Coa is " dirty " then what about one of the greatest riders of all time, Angel Cordero?

You know what a dirty rider is and Cordero certainly fit the descrption.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You know what a dirty rider is and Cordero certainly fit the descrption.

I just don't like the word, as it connotes something that I am not sure is true, at least in this sense, as a rider's job is to win. If what you do to win is within the rules, how can that be considered " dirty " riding, and wouldn't it be more fair to say that the rules need to be changed?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like some tactics riders use, but I don't necessarily fault them if they are doing what they can to help their mounts win. I fault riders more for the opposite.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

id like to add that all the jocks that rode the 2/9/12 in the 5th should get the shaq award........

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

IF it is all apart of the game then we might as well go back to the fairs where riders used to beat and whip fellow riders during races. That isn't apart of the game. There is a certain amount of decorum that must be expected. Without it you have chaos. And please, Smarty's connections had good reason. Eddington notably was taken totally out of his game just to push and hound Smarty. Smarty finishes a tough beaten second. Eddington and some others were way back near last. Race Riding is apart of it and I don't have a problem with that. But Coa and Kenny D both put fellow jocks in jeopardy at times without any consequence. And you race ride in an effort to get an advantage for YOUR OWN HORSE. Not just to try and get someone else beaten even if it means you totally compromise your horses chances.

[the_fat_man]

I must be missing the point, with a horse that was eased.

You know what we should be discussing when it comes to trips/rides? How about:

1) Cornelio blocking Kent the length of the stretch on Friday, with the other half of the Mott entry. I've been betting over 30 years and I've seen a lot of stupid **** but a jock going out of his way to shut off a winning move by his entry mate is about as DUMBASS as it gets. YET, no comments on this forum.

2) How about Edgar going 4 wide on the 1st turn with Pays to Dream? I mean, the horse is coming off the pace anyway so why not sit on the rail, like the winner, or the 2 path, like the runner up? Run an extra 30-45 feet or so, lose by 1/2 length and get vanned off. Nice at 11:1 ............

This kind of stuff is interesting when it comes to trips. A horse that doesn't fire, for whatever reason, is not.

Let's try to take it up a notch.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I must be missing the point, with a horse that was eased.

You know what we should be discussing when it comes to trips/rides? How about:

1) Cornelio blocking Kent the length of the stretch on Friday, with the other half of the Mott entry. I've been betting over 30 years and I've seen a lot of stupid **** but a jock going out of his way to shut off a winning move by his entry mate is about as DUMBASS as it gets. YET, no comments on this forum.

2) How about Edgar going 4 wide on the 1st turn with Pays to Dream? I mean, the horse is coming off the pace anyway so why not sit on the rail, like the winner, or the 2 path, like the runner up? Run an extra 30-45 feet or so, lose by 1/2 length and get vanned off. Nice at 11:1 ............

This kind of stuff is interesting when it comes to trips. A horse that doesn't fire, for whatever reason, is not.

Let's try to take it up a notch.

Agreed on all counts. Well said.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think analyzing the ride is much ado about nothing.

You knew going into the race the other jocks would have a bullseye on BB's back.

You knew going in that Da Tara was going to make the lead - and KJD isn't stupid enough to hook a 40/1 longshot with a horse that has rated kindly and unleashed huge turn moves in both of the first two legs of the triple crown.

You knew going in that the ruthless Eibar Coa was riding Tale Of Ekati - who has tactical speed, was drawn outside of BB, and was obviously going to race ride BB.

In hindsight - the best strategy would have been a seemingly incredibly insane strategy going into the race. It would be for Kent to pull a page from the Ramon Dominguez playbook and stay glued to the rail. The rail was good enough - see Forefathers performance - and as it turned out ... Da Tara was clearly more horse than Tale of Ekati, which means Big Brown would have got out of the box if he had more horse than ToE.

However, Big Brown had no horse so all this doesn't matter.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think analyzing the ride is much ado about nothing.

You knew going into the race the other jocks would have a bullseye on BB's back.

You knew going in that Da Tara was going to make the lead - and KJD isn't stupid enough to hook a 40/1 longshot with a horse that has rated kindly and unleashed huge turn moves in both of the first two legs of the triple crown.

You knew going in that the ruthless Eibar Coa was riding Tale Of Ekati - who has tactical speed, was drawn outside of BB, and was obviously going to race ride BB.

In hindsight - the best strategy would have been a seemingly incredibly insane strategy going into the race. It would be for Kent to pull a page from the Ramon Dominguez playbook and stay glued to the rail. The rail was good enough - see Forefathers performance - and as it turned out ... Da Tara was clearly more horse than Tale of Ekati, which means Big Brown would have got out of the box if he had more horse than ToE.

However, Big Brown had no horse so all this doesn't matter.

Forefathers performance was not because of a decent rail, he got an unbelievable trip and was the best horse number wise

[slotdirt]

Just FWIW, note Billy Turner's comments on page two of this article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...9s.html?page=1

But at least one trainer believes the public was short-changed in this Belmont.

Billy Turner is the last living trainer of a Triple Crown winner, Seattle Slew in 1977. Early last week, Turner called Big Brown "a really good horse" who had "the best chance of winning the Triple Crown" since Spectacular Bid came up short in the '79 Belmont. "When the horse has the ability Big Brown does, his talent will make sure he gets the mile and a half."

It turns out that Big Brown covered less than a mile at full speed and Turner isn't satisfied with the various non-explanations. He's throwing his darts at the jockey.

"If the horse bobbled, fine, pull him up," Turner said. "But there was no bobble, no misstep. It was a disaster, the ride was a disaster from the start."

It occurred to one writer that Turner might have been describing the night Roberto Duran called out "no mas" and abandoned his fight against Ray Leonard, who was beating him badly. "A good analogy," the trainer said. "That's exactly what happened." The jockey "was going to be embarrassed, so he decided to pull the horse up. The ride was a disaster, a disaster from the start. In the '60s, '70s, '80s, the stewards would have told (Desormeaux) to leave New York and not come back."

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Just FWIW, note Billy Turner's comments on page two of this article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...9s.html?page=1

But at least one trainer believes the public was short-changed in this Belmont.

Billy Turner is the last living trainer of a Triple Crown winner, Seattle Slew in 1977. Early last week, Turner called Big Brown "a really good horse" who had "the best chance of winning the Triple Crown" since Spectacular Bid came up short in the '79 Belmont. "When the horse has the ability Big Brown does, his talent will make sure he gets the mile and a half."

It turns out that Big Brown covered less than a mile at full speed and Turner isn't satisfied with the various non-explanations. He's throwing his darts at the jockey.

"If the horse bobbled, fine, pull him up," Turner said. "But there was no bobble, no misstep. It was a disaster, the ride was a disaster from the start."

It occurred to one writer that Turner might have been describing the night Roberto Duran called out "no mas" and abandoned his fight against Ray Leonard, who was beating him badly. "A good analogy," the trainer said. "That's exactly what happened." The jockey "was going to be embarrassed, so he decided to pull the horse up. The ride was a disaster, a disaster from the start. In the '60s, '70s, '80s, the stewards would have told (Desormeaux) to leave New York and not come back."

Gee, that sounds familiar. Which one of our resident experts will be the first to step up and say Turner is not knowledgeable about the game?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

1) Cornelio blocking Kent the length of the stretch on Friday, with the other half of the Mott entry. I've been betting over 30 years and I've seen a lot of stupid **** but a jock going out of his way to shut off a winning move by his entry mate is about as DUMBASS as it gets. YET, no comments on this forum.

Kent likes to get buried inside on the turf....it's his move and hardly Cornelio's fault. Out of curiousity.....did those two horses have the same owner? Didn't Cornelio finish second?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Kent likes to get buried inside on the turf....it's his move and hardly Cornelio's fault. Out of curiousity.....did those two horses have the same owner? Didn't Cornelio finish second?

Kent likes to get buried inside? Who doesn't like to get buried inside?

Yeah, Cornelio finished 2nd but MOTT LOST a race he could've won.

Think he's happy? Assuming he's even aware of what happened?

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Coa is being criticized her for herding Big Brown on the backstretch? Funny stuff. I guess the irony of this is being missed by most. Desormeaux has been herding and intimidating other riders with regularity. Apparently Coa shouldn't return the favor?

Thank You for this. KD is one of the worst. He cops an attitude and the next thing is he is taking your horse in the race 5 wide for no apparent reason. Of interest is he took an Alan Garcia horse, No Reply, wide on a far turn with a horse who had nothing left. The stewards get ear fulls regularly on why this guy isn't suspended off of some of his rides. Thanks for the comment. I agree totally.