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#1
08-09-2006, 11:11 PM
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Kent came to So Cal in 89. Did it take trainers 17 years and 10000 rides to figure out that he wasnt "that good"? LOL There sure must be some dumb trainers out west if it took that long. Bobby Frankel must be an idiot because he has ridden Kent first call for long stretches over the years. Neil drysdale is another fool. He only rode Kent First call for about 10 years off and on. I think it was the 5000th ride for Drysdale where he figured out that Kent "wasnt that good". That was only after Kent rode his only derrby winner and had ridden a majority of his stake winners overr the last ten years. The fool! Cassidy is even dumber! He rode his last year after all of the other trainers figured out that he wasnt that good. All of the trainers in the east have to watch him a few more times. They dont have tvs in new york so they wouldnt know how "not that good" he really is. 
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#2
08-10-2006, 12:24 AM
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You argument is absurd. Just because big trainers used him for a while that doesn't mean they all think he's a superstar. Every top trainer out there has a bunch of different guys that they use. There are some guys like Pletcher out there who only use one guy but the majority of trainers have used multiple guys over the years. As I said before, Bobby Frankel was riding Jon Court on his best horse. That hardly means that Frankel thinks that Court is the best rider out there. There are some trainers that are more loyal to jockey agents than jockeys. They will use whatever jockey a certain agent has. In another words, some trainers are riding certain jocks simply because they are friends the jock's agents. If the agent and the jock split up, the trainer will stop using that jock. If you think that a trainer riding a certain jockey proves that that trainer thinks that jockey is great, you are wrong. Don't get me wrong, they're probably not going to use a guy they think is terrible. But if they think that a jock is at least sufficient and they are either friends with the jock or his agent, that may be why they ride that jock. I remeber backin the 1980s, the trainer Loren Rettele was friendly with the agent Bill Barisoff and Retttele would always use whatever jock Barisoff had. When Barisoff would split with a jock and get a new jock, then Rettele would stop using the old jock and starte using the new one. Another reason a trainer may use a certain jock is because the jock is a hard worker and he works a lot of horses for them in the morning. As I said, I will ask a few of the trainers and we will see what they say. If you turn out to be right l will admit it. I once had a debate with the poster Dunbar and I told him that I would check with some people to see who was right and I ended up coming back to the board and admitting to him that he was right. That's why I have credibility with many of the posters here. I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Last edited by Rupert Pupkin : 08-10-2006 at 12:30 AM.
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#3
08-10-2006, 02:06 AM
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I think you probably have it backwards. Desormeaux is a very upbeat, positive kind of guy. He's got a good attitude. I think his attitude and personality have been a huge asset for him. I'm guessing that his outgoing personality and upbeat demeanor have probably helped his business a lot more than hurt it.
If you said that Nakatani's personality and attitude have hurt his business somewhat, I would have to agree with you. There are deifnitely some peole out there that are not crazy about Corey. Some people think that he's pretty arrogant. I personally like him and there are a lot of people that like him a lot, but there are also people that don't like him. He is somewhat of a controversial personality. I don't think that's the case with Kent. By the way, I think Nakatani is a much better rider than Kent.
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#4
08-10-2006, 04:24 AM
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When your asking your "friend" Mandella about Kent, why dont you ask him about when Kent use to ride first call for him? Yeah, they usually just make the "sufficient" jocks first call riders. As a matter of fact, why dont you ask Drysdale why Kent was first call for so many years. Ask Cassidy or mel stute as well. Ask Bob Hess, Jr. Ask Ted West. Ask Craig lewis. Why were so many of these guys fooled for so long. Kent's riding has never been the question. If that were the case, why would his winning pct and in the money pct have always been so high? can you dispute that? Another article just in case you didnt know. There is a book out called "ride of their lives". Check it out.
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#5
08-10-2006, 04:56 AM
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Okay, i finally found the article i was looking for. Ed Golden writes for the Santa Anita website and has won an eclipse award for his writing.
Now who was right? By ED GOLDEN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DETERMINED DESORMEAUX RIDES AGAIN TO RIGHT CAREER Denial is a useful tool. It can be employed to skip through life unrealistically, ala Walter Mitty, whimsically whisking away responsible tasks that burden the hoi polloi. Somewhere along the way, however, the time comes when the piper must be paid. Such a moment is at hand for Kent Desormeaux. In 1993 he was at the apex of a career that seemingly knew no boundaries. He was the regular rider of Kotashaan, who would go on the win the Breeders' Cup Turf and earn Horse of the Year honors. In his first seven years as a rider, Desormeaux had achieved more than most jockeys do in a lifetime. He was a three-time Eclipse Award winner, twice as a journeyman (1989 and 1992) and once as champion apprentice (1987), one of only three riders to accomplish that (Chris McCarron and Steve Cauthen are the others). In 1993 he won the prestigious George Woolf Memorial Jockey Award, an honor bestowed upon him by his peers, and in 1989, he won a mind-boggling 598 races, the most ever in a single year and a record that still stands. Although since 1993 he has won the Kentucky Derby twice and been elected to the Hall of Fame, a chorus of closet critics point to valleys of unfullfilment for Desormeaux. Accusers say he brought his present plight on himself with an all-or-nothing attitude that had him so bent on winning he would not waste effort riding for minor awards. This stigma grew, drawing the wrath of bettors, racing officials, horsemen and the media. Last year the Louisiana native with the matinee-idol good looks (he performed in an episode of the hit TV series, "Bay Watch,") won only 109 races. At Santa Anita during a recent weekend, Desormeaux had only five mounts in a span of 26 races, an affront to a proud and competitive athlete whose thirst for victory is unquenchable. That's what sticks in his craw, and that's why Desormeaux and his new agent, Harry (The Hat) Hacek are taking drastic corrective measures. Hacek, who has represented Hall of Fame jockeys Steve Cauthen, Eddie Delahoussaye, Sandy Hawley, Chris McCarron, Darrel McHargue and Gary Stevens, among others, is in the arduous process of reopening doors, along with his newest client. Horsemen do not question Desormeaux's enormous skills on horseback, only his outlook and work ethic. Agent and rider are facing those issues head-on. They are beating the bushes on the backstretch on a daily basis.. "It would be safe to say Kent has fallen from grace in the past few years, hitting rock-bottom at the recent Hollywood Park fall meet where he finished 12th in the standings with just 10 wins," points out Hacek, who earned the nickname "The Hat" years ago through his propensity for wearing chapeaus. "The alliteration was a nice fit," Hacek said when a friend dubbed him 'The Hat,' "so I kept it. "Everyone knows of Kent's impressive statistics and accomplishments," Hacek said. "Yet it is inconceivable that he would win only 109 races in 2004, less than half of those won by Tyler Baze, Victor Espinoza and Corey Nakatani, to name but three. Remember, in his early 30s Kent once led the greatest riding colony ever assembled, consisting of the likes of Pincay, McCarron, Delahoussaye, Stevens, Solis, etc. "Understandably, Kent is disturbed by his decline in popularity and production. He is aware of his shortcomings and readily accepts full blame. He began 2005 with a new agent and a new attitude, as though he just arrived in California, only wiser and more mature. He wants a second chance. Working closely with him in the past few weeks, I know people will be amazed by his new makeover. It will be a work in progress." Not that it's been all bad for Desormeaux, who turns 35 on Feb. 27. Far from it. Criticism aside, in 2000 Desormeaux won his second Kentucky Derby in three years aboard Fusaichi Pegasus and his earnings of $13.4 million led all California-based riders and placed him fifth nationally. He won 20 graded stakes races that year. In 1997 at the age of 27, he became the youngest jockey to surpass $100 million in career earnings and he began 2003 eighth on the all-time earnings list with $166,055,249. Last year, Desormeaux received his crowning award, induction into the Hall of Fame, becoming the youngest rider to be so honored. There are those who would attribute Desormeaux's relative void in large part to multiple skull fractures suffered in a spill at Hollywood Park on Dec. 11, 1992, although he returned on Jan. 22, 1993, and won aboard his first two mounts. Others could cite the trauma Kent and his wife, Sonia, experienced when their youngest son, Jacob, was born deaf. But Desormeaux would be the last person to make excuses. In my dealings with him, he has always been forthright. No one feels worse after a loss than Kent. He knows he is overdue in righting his wayward ship. "Harry gave me a wake-up call," Desormeaux said. "He berated me with expletives about what I was doing with my career. He didn't massage my ego and he pointed out my shortcomings. I appreciated his candor. It was just what I needed. I had lost focus. You will see a new and improved version of Kent Desormeaux, I guarantee." Hacek concurs. "Since joining forces, Kent has done everything I have asked of him," Hacek said. "His dedication and determination have never been stronger. If owners and trainers give him a deserved second chance, or half the opportunity they are willing to give Pat Valenzuela, we'll show everyone that Kent is the best rider in America today. He is an Arcaro, Pincay, Cordero type, smart and strong, and his accomplishments at such a young age support that. Competitive slander and character assassination cannot change those facts."
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#6
08-10-2006, 05:00 AM
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Anyway, I'm getting tired of this debate. It's a one-way debate. I answer all of your questions but you don't answer mine. You still haven't answered the simplest and most obvious question: Why would Desormeaux have a reputation of being lazy and not willing to ride cheap horses if he was out there every morning working his butt off and telling trainers that he is happy to ride cheap horses? That doesn't make any sense. I don't remember whether Desormeaux ever was riding first-call for Mandella. I'll have to look into that. Even if he was, different trainers have different tastes in jockeys. Solis has ridden first-call for Mandella. I don't care. Solis was not and never will be in the league of Stevens, Bailey, McCarron, P Val, Pincay, Delahoussaye, Espinoza, etc. By the way, I hardly think Mel Stute is a good trainer. If you think so then we have obviously have completely different tastes in trainers. I hardly consider Craig Lewis a good trainer. Bob Hess and Ted West are respectable. Drysdale is obviously a good trainer. By the way, are you suggesting that Desormeaux was so lazy that he wouldn't even work horses for Drysdale in the morning? Are you suggesting that Desormeax was rude to Drysdale or gave him an attitude? I don't know for a fact that this didn't happen, but I highly doubt it. I highly doubt Desormeaux was giving an attitude to the top trainers, the trainers that he wanted to ride for.
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#7
08-10-2006, 05:07 AM
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Check out the article printed above and what is your response to the bolded, underlined text? Checkmate pal.
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#8
08-10-2006, 05:51 AM
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After reading that article, I would say that there could be some truth to some of the stuff you are saying. It's only an article though. Sports writers are known for hyperbole. The problem with the article is there's not a single quote from a single trainer in that article. There wasn't even one trainer that he could quote that confirmed his hypothesis as to the cause of Desormeaux's downfall. If there were quotes from at least a few trainers saying that they think that Kent is a great jock but they won't ride him because of his work ethic, then you would at least have some evidence that some trainers out there confirm what you are saying. I thought the article in 1995 said that he was getting his act together and working hard. Your articles have done just as much damage to your argument as they have helped your argument. If the trainers truly think he has so much talent and their only problem with him is his work ethic, then they would have started to ride him again after they saw that he was working hard again. The fact that trainers still would not ride him even when his attitude and work ethic were good is evidence that the problem was with his riding rather than his work ethic. I guess I can say "check mate" now. Last edited by Rupert Pupkin : 08-10-2006 at 05:54 AM.
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#9
08-10-2006, 06:34 AM
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By the way, most trainers are very forgiving. As long as they think you still have the ability, they will usually forgive past indiscretions. Look at how many times P Val has tested positive for drugs. Yet every time he comes back, they give him another chance. The reason they always give him another chance is because they think he's a great jockey. They will ride him despite his personal shortcomings because he is a great jockey and there aren't that many great jockeys out there. There are a lot of good jockeys but not that many great ones. If they thought Desormeaux was a great rider, they would ride him, even if they had some issues with him. They obviously don't think he's that good any more.
Why would they still be willing to ride P Val with all of his problems but not Kent? The reason is obvious. They think P Val is a much better jockey.
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#10
08-10-2006, 10:18 AM
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They eventually grew tired of giving him chances. Here is another article that kind of illustrates how many "resurrections" he's had: ARCADIA, Calif. - Never underestimate the motivational power of real estate. Kent Desormeaux, winner of the Oak Tree Derby and the Goodwood Handicap on successive weekends at Santa Anita, is riding like a man paying for a new piece of property, which he is. And while anyone else who had moved barely two weeks ago would be exhausted from hauling boxes, unpacking record collections, or pushing that 300-pound armoire "just a little bit more to the right," Desormeaux seems invigorated. Leave it to Kent to concoct an image that suits his new surroundings. "I feel like I've finally placed myself in a trophy," he said, "instead of having so many trophies in a lesser home." No one is more entertaining than Desormeaux when he gets on a verbal roll. And no one can articulate the details of his craft quite like Kent, who knows precisely why he does whatever he does at each and every point of a race, whether it works or not. His ride aboard the former European colt No Slip in the Oak Tree Derby last Saturday was a thriller. Then on Sunday, he nearly stole the Harold Ramser Handicap with the longshot Walts Wharf. Combine that with his Goodwood upset aboard Freedom Crest and four more winners over the weekend, and you have the makings of a good, old-fashioned Desormeaux resurrection. Usually, there is only one resurrection to a customer. At the age of 31, Desormeaux seems to be drawing from a lifetime supply. There was his rise and fall and rise again in the mid-1990's, culminated by his 1998 Kentucky Derby and Preakness victories aboard Real Quiet. Then came another business crash, followed by another glorious rebirth on the wings of Fusaichi Pegasus in the 2000 Derby. Desormeaux took fate into his own hands earlier this year and uprooted his family to Japan for a lucrative mini-season of competition. He made a ton of money and thousands of fans, while spending more time than ever before with his wife, Sonia, and sons Josh and Jake. The gamble had a price. When Desormeaux returned to California in July, it took most of the Del Mar meet to build any head of steam. The past two weeks have been more typical of a career than includes more than 4,000 winners and three Eclipse Awards. "I hope it's back to business as usual," Desormeaux said. "I certainly am attempting to be out there, and show the smiling fresh face that has returned from Japan. I have no desire to be a jockey that's just hanging around the colony. It's my desire to be number one." Perhaps more than any other top rider, Desormeaux wears his technique on his sleeve. He tries things on horseback that may look strange, or go against the grain. But, more often than not, they work. His ride aboard No Slip was a perfect example. Far back on a slow pace, Desormeaux and his colt came flying in the final 100 yards to beat Laffit Pincay and Sligo Bay by the thinnest possible nose. The contrast in finishing styles was striking. Pincay was coiling and uncoiling in his familiar humpbacked profile, like a powerful spring attached to the back of the animal. Then there was Desormeaux, on the outside, arms flailing and reins flapping, "tossing salad" to beat the band. He explained. "For me, it works better than the whip," Kent began. "It gets a horse to find more, deep down. If you think about lifting a dumbbell, the first thing you do is grit your teeth and wince with strain. Horses are the same. They bite their teeth, and when they become fatigued, the first thing they do is let go and spit the bit. "I encourage them by giving the bit a light tug and twirling it in their mouth, enticing them to chomp back down on the bridle and take it forward. At the same time, my right hand is behind flashed right beside their eye. So I'm chasing them forward, trying to get them to bite the bridle." The Desormeaux comeback could be complete if he makes an impact on Breeders' Cup Day, Oct. 27, at Belmont Park. He is looking forward to riding Freedom Crest against the best the world can muster in the $4 million Classic. And he is particularly excited about his mount in the $1 million Juvenile. "This will be a very special year," he said. "I'm going to win the Juvenile for my brother. How about that?" That would be fine by Keith Desormeaux, the brother in question, and trainer of French Assault. He is a son of French Deputy, out of a granddaughter of Six Crowns, who has run six times and won twice, including a stakes at Retama Park. In his most recent start, French Assault was second in the Kentucky Cup Juvenile. "I rode him at Turfway," Kent said. "He was a very good second in my eyes. I didn't know the colt, and I think I would have won the race had I been on him before." So what Desormeaux is saying, with a smile and flash of his dark brown eyes, is that French Assault is going to beat Officer, everyone else's best bet of the day. "Yes, he will," Desormeaux replied. And for a second, you almost believed him. I bolded the part that explains what happened.
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