Cork him

[jms62]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He would have almost certainly finished 2nd in the Preakness - possibly even won the race ... after all - the pace was fast enough and the figure was just a 100. It would have been a great setup for him. Coming back in 3 weeks for the Belmont wouldn't have been a problem either.

Possibly won ? Come on. Beyer speed figures won't do BB justice because he is dominating other horses by so much that he is wrapped up long before the race is complete. Beyers are based upon a horse going all out the entire way...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by jms62

Beyer speed figures won't do BB justice because he is dominating other horses by so much that he is wrapped up long before the race is complete. Beyers are based upon a horse going all out the entire way...

I have news for you - the two highest Beyers this year Commentator (119) and Monterry Jazz (118) were both earned by horses who won under FAR, FAR MORE restraint than Big Brown ever was in the Preakness.

People still believe that horses could run "much faster" if they were "all out" instead of taken in hand late?

It's mind numbing stupidity really. Watch enough races and find out for yourself. It's the mentality of people who don't bet.

Officer won every single race in his career while restrained throughout - not cut loose mid-way on the turn like Big Brown was.

When he got a test finally in the BC Juvie he was bet to an absurd 1/2 favortisim because "he could have run so much faster" - he was ridden hard in the Juvie and was off the board. One example, but there are hundreds of others.

[MisterB]

Another reason why beyers are not a good judge of class.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Another reason why beyers are not a good judge of class.

Huh?

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Huh?

BB's mental and physical attributes out weigh any number a human puts on him. KD had this horse in a full Nelson most of the way, and BB acted just fine, then he put the peddle down just enough to get clear, and take his foot off the gas, and save some fuel for next time.

Who cares what Beyer he got, he was flawless.

I guess when you don't bounce off your top, it's called a reversal. We have names for everything in this sport.

[Bobby Fischer]

Brown couldn't have run very much faster once he made his move. Maybe a fraction of a second. Maybe.
That is the misconception concerning wrapped up horses and final times.

Where he could have bettred his time was during the begining and middle of the race.
If there are blazing fractions set, and another threatening opponent the final time can be faster.

The other option would be to leave the slow horses behind on the backstretch and go out and race the clock on his own.

Horses don't often run away from the group as in Secretariat's Belmont. Today Secretariat would have been wrapped up on the backstretch and raced with the group of horses. He wouldn't have run his amazing final time.

A beyer from the preakness doesn't measure the limits of Big Brown's ability unless you believe that he couldn't have gone any faster.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I have news for you - the two highest Beyers this year Commentator (119) and Monterry Jazz (118) were both earned by horses who won under FAR, FAR MORE restraint than Big Brown ever was in the Preakness.

People still believe that horses could run "much faster" if they were "all out" instead of taken in hand late?

It's mind numbing stupidity really. Watch enough races and find out for yourself. It's the mentality of people who don't bet.

Officer won every single race in his career while restrained throughout - not cut loose mid-way on the turn like Big Brown was.

When he got a test finally in the BC Juvie he was bet to an absurd 1/2 favortisim because "he could have run so much faster" - he was ridden hard in the Juvie and was off the board. One example, but there are hundreds of others.

I'm not gonna argue one way or another how much faster Big Brown could've run in the Preakness, but there's no way Denis of Cork would've beaten him.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

DoC would have got a setup - and had he managed to slice his way through the pack - while unlikely, who's to say he couldn't run a mediocre number like a 102 or 103?

All the early race riding while up on a solid pace had a lot more to do with BB not running a big number than the fact that he was taken in hand through the final furlong.

It gets a little annoying when people act like that means the horse could have run several lengths faster.

I've never believed riding with restraint makes it any easier on the horse either.

Here is a clip of Milkom winning the Grade 1 Man O' War at 8/1 while under a full nelson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04BdGqmOB6w

Not only did Stevens never move on him - but he actually fought with him and had him under strong restraint for most of the race. Millkom came out of the race with a career ending injury.

[MisterB]

Drugs,
You think KD only had a firm hand on him the last furlong??

What about whem Prado tried to close the door on him, and he took back, and went to the 4-5 path to avoid trouble.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Drugs,
You think KD only had a firm hand on him the last furlong??

What about whem Prado tried to close the door on him, and he took back, and went to the 4-5 path to avoid trouble.

If Dennis of Cork ran in the race does that mean it wouldn't have happened?

Thats my point - I'm not saying DoC is anywhere near as good as BB - I'm saying that if he ran in the Preakness he'd atleast have run 2nd - and would have needed about a 102 or 103 Beyer to win.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If Dennis of Cork ran in the race does that mean it wouldn't have happened?

Thats my point - I'm not saying DoC is anywhere near as good as BB - I'm saying that if he ran in the Preakness he'd atleast have run 2nd - and would have needed about a 102 or 103 Beyer to win.

Fair enough, I like DOC.

[Round Pen]

it has really been hard for me to make a post in this thread because I have been laughing to Hard.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

it has really been hard for me to make a post in this thread because I have been laughing to Hard.

Laughing at what?

People who think riding a horse out through the stretch makes him run open lengths faster?

I find it more annoying than funny...but whatever floats your boat.

[Bobby Fischer]

What beyer did they give out last year for the Preakness?

I don't remember. I know it was a pretty fast final time.

The track was pretty fast... Then you had a fast pace to begin with... Then Pino takes the Derby place horse Hard Spun and gives him a "Kieren Fallon"...
And then you had two BEARS to run it down and duel to the wire.

No wonder it was a fast time.

This years preakness featured a dissapearing act from the cheap pace setter TreBorachos, and a superstar trying not to inherit the lead too early at about a 1:36 clip with nothing to fear but a mishap.

[jms62]

Maybe it is the "Denis of Cork could have beaten Big Brown" statement (Leader in the clubhouse of absurd 2008 statments) that makes him laugh.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'm not gonna argue one way or another how much faster Big Brown could've run in the Preakness, but there's no way Denis of Cork would've beaten him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMoxifieuoI

im pretty sure he could have run a faster race.. but dennis of cork will look like these also rans on belmont day..no matter who is on him imo..

kents commnents are pretty telling....