Big Brown - Overrated?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

In your opinion, after seeing that 49 and change go up in the Travers, how did you think that race was going to play out? If Lion Heart doesn't break his leg, is it that far of a stretch to assume that he could have won that race? If he does, he's a Derby runner-up, and a Haskell/Travers winner, winning the Travers while beating the Belmont winner. Where would he fit in the conversation then?

If you want to play God, and talk about ifs, then you need to reassess your list. But be please careful, it's like lighting a match during drought season.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If you want to play God, and talk about ifs, then you need to reassess your list. But be please careful, it's like lighting a match during drought season.

I'm not playing God at all. I'm just asking you about your opinion of that particular race. No right or wrong answers here.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm not playing God at all. I'm just asking you about your opinion of that particular race. No right or wrong answers here.

Well your question becomes irrelevant if we take the biggest "if" of all into consideration... what "if" Barbaro doesn't break down in the Preakness? Basing lists on what could have beens is absolutely pointless.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Well your question becomes irrelevant if we take the biggest "if" of all into consideration... what "if" Barbaro doesn't break down in the Preakness? Basing lists on what could have beens is absolutely pointless.

Ok. I didn't think getting an opinion would be that hard. Nevermind.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Ok. I didn't think getting an opinion would be that hard. Nevermind.

If you want my opinion, here it is: Your list stinks.

First off all, Lion Heart is a runner-up and that only in any Triple Crown race which, based upon the skewed logic you've presented, disqualifies him to a spot well below say more than a dozen 3-year-olds included and not included in your list. But because I'm off tomorrow, I'll play.

Street Sense is a Kentucky Derby winner, a Preakness runner-up, a Jim Dandy winner, a Travers winner and a runner-up against elders in the Kentucky Cup. How, in a million years that qualifies him for a lower spot than a horse like Lion Heart is flabbergasting.

Or how Afleet Alex, who won the Arkansas Derby, was a Derby runner-up, a Preakness winner and a Belmont winner is below Lion Heart is good for a segment on The Daily Show.

Here's one which really made me laugh... Flower Alley ABOVE Birdstone! Flower Alley won the Travers, Birdstone won the BELMONT STAKES AND THE TRAVERS!!!! Oh my!!!!

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If you want my opinion, here it is: Your list stinks.

First off all, Lion Heart is a runner-up and that only in any Triple Crown race which, based upon the skewed logic you've presented, disqualifies him to a spot well below say more than a dozen 3-year-olds included and not included in your list. But because I'm off tomorrow, I'll play.

Street Sense is a Kentucky Derby winner, a Preakness runner-up, a Jim Dandy winner, a Travers runner-up and a runner-up against elders in the Kentucky Cup. How, in a million years that qualifies him for a lower spot than a horse like Lion Heart is flabbergasting.

Or how Afleet Alex, who won the Arkansas Derby, was a Derby runner-up, a Preakness winner and a Belmont winner is below Lion Heart is good for a segment on The Daily Show.

Here's one which really made me laugh... Flower Alley ABOVE Birdstone! Flower Alley won the Travers, Birdstone won the BELMONT STAKES AND THE TRAVERS!!!! Oh my!!!!

The last time I checked, Street Sense won the Travers.

[Travis Stone]

"Narrowly".. haha, yea, typo on my part. Smoke was flying off my fingers!!

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If you want my opinion, here it is: Your list stinks.

First off all, Lion Heart is a runner-up and that only in any Triple Crown race which, based upon the skewed logic you've presented, disqualifies him to a spot well below say more than a dozen 3-year-olds included and not included in your list. But because I'm off tomorrow, I'll play.

Street Sense is a Kentucky Derby winner, a Preakness runner-up, a Jim Dandy winner, a Travers winner and a runner-up against elders in the Kentucky Cup. How, in a million years that qualifies him for a lower spot than a horse like Lion Heart is flabbergasting.

Or how Afleet Alex, who won the Arkansas Derby, was a Derby runner-up, a Preakness winner and a Belmont winner is below Lion Heart is good for a segment on The Daily Show.

Here's one which really made me laugh... Flower Alley ABOVE Birdstone! Flower Alley won the Travers, Birdstone won the BELMONT STAKES AND THE TRAVERS!!!! Oh my!!!!

While you are right that KG has Lionheart too high on his list you are completely off base on everything else. Comparing accomplishments in races is meaningless without factoring in competition. If Big Brown finished fifth in the Travers behind Curlin, Bernardini, Barbaro, and Smarty Jones in a 110 Beyer would that make him a worse horse than Anak Nakal if he won the Travers beating Tomcito, Spark Candle, Court Vision, and Monba in a 92 Beyer? Of course not. You really think Jazil and Birdstone are better than Alydar cause they won a Triple Crown race? How fast a horse is it what needs to be compared, not what cheap wins you pick up against crappy competition.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

While you are right that KG has Lionheart too high on his list you are completely off base on everything else. Comparing accomplishments in races is meaningless without factoring in competition. If Big Brown finished fifth in the Travers behind Curlin, Bernardini, Barbaro, and Smarty Jones in a 110 Beyer would that make him a worse horse than Anak Nakal if he won the Travers beating Tomcito, Spark Candle, Court Vision, and Monba in a 92 Beyer? Of course not. You really think Jazil and Birdstone are better than Alydar cause they won a Triple Crown race? How fast a horse is it what needs to be compared, not what cheap wins you pick up against crappy competition.

Do you really think that Lion Heart was better than Street Sense and Afleet Alex? Not me. I also don't think Flower Alley was better than Birdstone.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If you want my opinion, here it is: Your list stinks.

First off all, Lion Heart is a runner-up and that only in any Triple Crown race which, based upon the skewed logic you've presented, disqualifies him to a spot well below say more than a dozen 3-year-olds included and not included in your list. But because I'm off tomorrow, I'll play.

Street Sense is a Kentucky Derby winner, a Preakness runner-up, a Jim Dandy winner, a Travers winner and a runner-up against elders in the Kentucky Cup. How, in a million years that qualifies him for a lower spot than a horse like Lion Heart is flabbergasting.

Or how Afleet Alex, who won the Arkansas Derby, was a Derby runner-up, a Preakness winner and a Belmont winner is below Lion Heart is good for a segment on The Daily Show.

Here's one which really made me laugh... Flower Alley ABOVE Birdstone! Flower Alley won the Travers, Birdstone won the BELMONT STAKES AND THE TRAVERS!!!! Oh my!!!!

Flower Alley also ran second in the BC Classic. Better than Birdstone did. I feel like Flower Alley during the second half of his 3yo season was a better horse than Birdstone was during his.

The list though is not just about accomplishments. If it were, of course Lion Heart would be much further down the list. But my opinions are based on my perception of their abilities. Didn't know there was a right or wrong there but I'm glad you set me straight. Thank you for your opinions. I'm glad I was able to make you laugh.