Eight Belles & Proud Spell

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Yeah, that seems a no brainer. Once this precendent is set won't every trainer with a top contender enter a filly with earnings and then scratch just to reduce the size of the field?

if a trainer hasn't got a colt in the field, why would he care about the field size? jones doesn't have one.
he has the ability to choose, so he's using the rules to benefit. like i said before, if anyone should be in the doghouse about it, it ought to be the downs for not allowing AE's. but they aren't allowing dime supers either-so i don't get the sense that they really care.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

if a trainer hasn't got a colt in the field, why would he care about the field size? jones doesn't have one.
he has the ability to choose, so he's using the rules to benefit. like i said before, if anyone should be in the doghouse about it, it ought to be the downs for not allowing AE's. but they aren't allowing dime supers either-so i don't get the sense that they really care.

It is all about the precedent being set of pre-entering both and scratching from the Derby. Once that is set then you'll see a lot more fillies nominate to the Triple Crown and if their trainer has a top contender you'll see them do the same thing.

The absolute simplest thing is to have a rule where if you enter any race but the Derby on that weekend and you scratch from the Derby you have to scratch from the other race as well. Also eligibles would be great but they are obviously showing a reluctance to that for some reason. This is simpler and shouldn't inconvenience anyone.

[Danzig]

i don't see a sudden influx of fillies being entered. hell, it's been the rule for years, and it hasn't happened. it's allowed, he's using it to his advantage.
to be honest, the ONLY ones who will complain if they scratch after entering, will be the owners and trainers of the two left out. the 18 remaining won't mind one bit!
like i said, the easiest answer is an ae list. why you can't have it in racing, except here, i don't know.
if the complaint is restricted earnings, then 2 yo earnings need to be excluded as well.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't see a sudden influx of fillies being entered. hell, it's been the rule for years, and it hasn't happened. it's allowed, he's using it to his advantage.
to be honest, the ONLY ones who will complain if they scratch after entering, will be the owners and trainers of the two left out. the 18 remaining won't mind one bit!
like i said, the easiest answer is an ae list. why you can't have it in racing, except here, i don't know.
if the complaint is restricted earnings, then 2 yo earnings need to be excluded as well.

It's a loophole, and a loophole that hasn't been exploited often because people have had respect for the Derby and not treated it as a race you scratch out of if you get a bad post position. Now it is being exploited and the loophole needs to be closed or it is just going to abused more and more each year as it becomes more accepted.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It's a loophole, and a loophole that hasn't been exploited often because people have had respect for the Derby and not treated it as a race you scratch out of if you get a bad post position. Now it is being exploited and the loophole needs to be closed or it is just going to abused more and more each year as it becomes more accepted.

peope have respect for the derby? regarding entering? that's why horses like some of the ones entering this year are there, because their connections have respect for the derby?

eight belles has some of the best figs all year. she has shown that she belongs, if not outshines, some of her male counterparts. if her owner gets cold feet over a draw, and pulls her out, i'll be unhappy. but he does have that alternative and in that regard he's lucky. but i'd think eight belles will go.
if she doesn't, we'll still have a derby winner, and the chart caller will have one or two less to put 'outrun' or 'stopped badly'....

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

peope have respect for the derby? regarding entering? that's why horses like some of the ones entering this year are there, because their connections have respect for the derby?

eight belles has some of the best figs all year. she has shown that she belongs, if not outshines, some of her male counterparts. if her owner gets cold feet over a draw, and pulls her out, i'll be unhappy. but he does have that alternative and in that regard he's lucky. but i'd think eight belles will go.
if she doesn't, we'll still have a derby winner, and the chart caller will have one or two less to put 'outrun' or 'stopped badly'....

Yeah, the Derby is so big that people will run no chance horses they'd never run in any other race just to be a part of it and will stay in even with a no chance post position.

I 110% think Eight Belles belongs in the Derby. I don't think she should be allowed to enter both though and then choose the Oaks.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Both should go in the Oaks......this is crazy!

[Danzig]

i don't think it's crazy Hx3. you won't know if you don't try. eight belles had everything go wrong in her last, and still won. i bet she got a lot more out of that race than pyro and cool coal man got out of the bluegrass....
as for the rules for entering, i think the derby needs reworking big time. but i don't think porter should get blasted either. he's going to take a shot, but will also do what he thinks is best for his horses-which you don't often see. he wants a chance, but not if he thinks his gals will be compromised too badly to take that chance.

but then again, i'm biased in that i think the field is too dammed big anyway.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Both should go in the Oaks......this is crazy!

i agree. let the folks waste time speculating. if you think either one of these horses has a shot . well, good luck to ya ! it happens like once a generation. and many times ends in disaster for the filly . and these 2 are not even that good!

[dylbert]

Many thoughts, ideas, issues, and complaints have been aired on this thread, this forum, and other forums about Kentucky Derby this year.

The primary fact remains that Churchill Downs makes the rules. CD will continue to use rules that work for them. If 20-horse race handle is $118 million or 18-horse race handle is $118 million, does CD care? NOPE.

Horseplayers can continue to discuss and attempt to influence CD. However, changing the course of a glacier may be simpler task than changing selection process for Kentucky Derby.

Personally, I would favor field size reduction. Smaller field such as fourteen starters would eliminate some of the inequities of 20-horse field. I know of no other North American race that has 20 starters. Bad posts, chaos, bad racing luck, tiring horses, and other factors take away from true competition.

Is real champion going to emerge from 2008 Derby? Or is "son of Giacomo" going to clunk up at the wire? The answer arrives during most exciting two minutes in sports on first Saturday in May.

[hockey2315]

The Turf Economist has spoken, Hoss. Take heed.