War Pass out with fracture

[whodey17]

This quote is precious.....

“It’s been an uphill battle this year, what can I tell you,” Zito said this morning by phone. “Just a struggle,unfortunately. He’s a great horse who just had obstacle after obstacle."

The obstacle was Zito. I knew he would run this horse in the ground. Everyone knew he wasn't going to get the longer distances but Zito kept on going with him and broke him down.

Good job by War Pass to accomplish what he did despite of his trainer. Sad day for the horse and hopefully he will recover.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by whodey17

This quote is precious.....

“It’s been an uphill battle this year, what can I tell you,” Zito said this morning by phone. “Just a struggle,unfortunately. He’s a great horse who just had obstacle after obstacle."

The obstacle was Zito. I knew he would run this horse in the ground. Everyone knew he wasn't going to get the longer distances but Zito kept on going with him and broke him down.

Good job by War Pass to accomplish what he did despite of his trainer. Sad day for the horse and hopefully he will recover.

And the hard on continues

[CSC]

I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but this is the third freakishly fast Zito trained horse that has its problems.

Bellamy Road, Commentator and now War Pass.

[CSC]

Since I am relatively new here, why does this seemed to have touched a nerve here? It seems to me most of Trainer's mentioned here have had some sort of criticism aimed at them, but none of this depth of reaction...

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by CSC

Since I am relatively new here, why does this seemed to have touched a nerve here? It seems to me most of Trainer's mentioned here have had some sort of criticism aimed at them, but none of this depth of reaction...

whodey, Eurobounce, whatever you want to call him, is a fervent Zito basher and takes every opportunity to make sure everyone knows this.

That being said, THIS makes things interesting two weeks from today...

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by CSC

Since I am relatively new here, why does this seemed to have touched a nerve here? It seems to me most of Trainer's mentioned here have had some sort of criticism aimed at them, but none of this depth of reaction...

There are a few subjects that - for whatever reason - inspire incredibly heated debate here. Off the top of my head this list includes:

1) Lost in the Fog
2) Polytrack
3) Perfect Drift
4) Nick Zito
5) Bernardini

There are probably more that I am forgetting, but basically these subjects generate big arguments because there are certain individuals here that have very strong opinions either for or against these topics. Once they stake out their extreme positions, other people argue strenuously with them. In the case of Zito, it is basically just whodey taking every conceivable opportunity to take a shot at Zito. Add in the fact that Zito has some staunch supporters (and in some cases, friends) on this board, and you have yourself a recipe for acrimony.

[Riot]

Think of this: LaPenta and Lane's End give the horse time off, and then bring him back into training late fall/winter. Bring to racing a fantastic 4-year-old miler, on a campaign to the Breeders Cup in the fall ...

Oh, now I am seeing pretty white unicorns. And poppies ...

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by miraja2

There are a few subjects that - for whatever reason - inspire incredibly heated debate here. Off the top of my head this list includes:

1) Lost in the Fog
2) Polytrack
3) Perfect Drift
4) Nick Zito
5) Bernardini

There are probably more that I am forgetting, but basically these subjects generate big arguments because there are certain individuals here that have very strong opinions either for or against these topics. Once they stake out their extreme positions, other people argue strenuously with them. In the case of Zito, it is basically just whodey taking every conceivable opportunity to take a shot at Zito. Add in the fact that Zito has some staunch supporters (and in some cases, friends) on this board, and you have yourself a recipe for acrimony.

Funny Cide, Sheik Mo and favorite racecaller probably deserve a spot on your list. they consistently draw a crowd.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by miraja2

There are a few subjects that - for whatever reason - inspire incredibly heated debate here. Off the top of my head this list includes:

1) Lost in the Fog
2) Polytrack
3) Perfect Drift
4) Nick Zito
5) Bernardini

There are probably more that I am forgetting, but basically these subjects generate big arguments because there are certain individuals here that have very strong opinions either for or against these topics. Once they stake out their extreme positions, other people argue strenuously with them. In the case of Zito, it is basically just whodey taking every conceivable opportunity to take a shot at Zito. Add in the fact that Zito has some staunch supporters (and in some cases, friends) on this board, and you have yourself a recipe for acrimony.

Is that all... Not much left to talk about after that, guess I'll go to bed. Thanks for updating me though on these "taboo" subjects here. I wouldn't want to offend anyone. BTW Isn't this supposed to be a discussion forum? What's the point of coming here if certain subjects are off limits.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by CSC

I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but this is the third freakishly fast Zito trained horse that has its problems.

Bellamy Road, Commentator and now War Pass.

Freakishly fast is it's own problem unto itself. Slow horses are not as susceptible to injury.

Anybody here care to give Zito the credit he rightly deserves for x-raying something that many wouldn't?

And finding the problem before the horse blows the ankle apart on the track?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

Freakishly fast is it's own problem unto itself. Slow horses are not as susceptible to injury.

Anybody here care to give Zito the credit he rightly deserves for x-raying something that many wouldn't?

And finding the problem before the horse blows the ankle apart on the track?

I'm wasn't pointing fingers at Zito, I'm not sure what a Trainer can do in these situations except run them once a year as Michael Dickinson does or not run them at all. That's not the answer we know... I did think it was interesting that is the 1st thing that popped into my head when I read War Pass was out due to injury. 3 horses with all simular profiles all have been sidelined coincidentally under Nick's care.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by Scav

And the hard on continues

Well at least I am not down on my knees in front of Zito with my mouth wide open like some people on this board. And at my age, I will take a hard on anytime.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Well at least I am not down on my knees in front of Zito with my mouth wide open like some people on this board. And at my age, I will take a hard on anytime.

The sad thing is that while you would never be in this situation, you would have tried the same exact thing with War Pass, and it really wasn't because they stretched him out. Horses stretch out all the time.

For you to think Zito ruined this horse, just shows you have a very bias opinion.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by whodey17

This quote is precious.....

“It’s been an uphill battle this year, what can I tell you,” Zito said this morning by phone. “Just a struggle,unfortunately. He’s a great horse who just had obstacle after obstacle."

The obstacle was Zito. I knew he would run this horse in the ground. Everyone knew he wasn't going to get the longer distances but Zito kept on going with him and broke him down.

Good job by War Pass to accomplish what he did despite of his trainer. Sad day for the horse and hopefully he will recover.

What a day for the naysayers?

At what point would you have made a decision differently from what Zito did? It's clear your distaste for Zito blinds you to reality, but where did he make a mistake? The horse's 2YO campaign was perfectly laid out. He brought him back in an easy spot. He ran poorly at Tampa but came out of it OK, then he did what any logical trainer would have, he ran him in the Wood Memorial.

It's perfectly OK to have preferences for some trainer over others and while I'm pissing in the wind even replying to you, why don't you take the blinkers off for a second and realize that injuries happen to horses, even to ones that are being handled with care.

NT

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

What a day for the naysayers?

At what point would you have made a decision differently from what Zito did? It's clear your distaste for Zito blinds you to reality, but where did he make a mistake? The horse's 2YO campaign was perfectly laid out. He brought him back in an easy spot. He ran poorly at Tampa but came out of it OK, then he did what any logical trainer would have, he ran him in the Wood Memorial.

It's perfectly OK to have preferences for some trainer over others and while I'm pissing in the wind even replying to you, why don't you take the blinkers off for a second and realize that injuries happen to horses, even to ones that are being handled with care.

NT

To be fair to Zito, he has done some good training jobs. War Pass was not completely 100% healthy for the Tampa Bay Derby. Then he puts the horse in a spot (The Wood) knowing that it was highly unlikely he would get the distance. Then the horse goes out there and runs blazing fractions in the Wood. I think it is up to the trainer to know what type of horse he/she has (this mistake happens all the time). Zito should have known War Pass was a horse that was better at distances between 7 furlongs and 1 1/16 miles. Some believe the plan was good for War Pass. But the plan didn't work. Some people on this board believe that when a plan doesn't work then the horse was mismanaged. For me, I think the plan for War Pass should have been a plan that included the Preakness instead of the Derby if you wanted to run in a Triple Crown race. However, he should have been pointed to the Met Mile.

[TheSpyder]

You seem to have good insight. I'm just wondering if you posted this view prior to WP getting injured.

Spyder

Originally Posted by whodey17

To be fair to Zito, he has done some good training jobs. War Pass was not completely 100% healthy for the Tampa Bay Derby. Then he puts the horse in a spot (The Wood) knowing that it was highly unlikely he would get the distance. Then the horse goes out there and runs blazing fractions in the Wood. I think it is up to the trainer to know what type of horse he/she has (this mistake happens all the time). Zito should have known War Pass was a horse that was better at distances between 7 furlongs and 1 1/16 miles. Some believe the plan was good for War Pass. But the plan didn't work. Some people on this board believe that when a plan doesn't work then the horse was mismanaged. For me, I think the plan for War Pass should have been a plan that included the Preakness instead of the Derby if you wanted to run in a Triple Crown race. However, he should have been pointed to the Met Mile.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

You seem to have good insight. I'm just wondering if you posted this view prior to WP getting injured.

Spyder

I believe I stated several times that War Pass had distance limitations. I put him in my Derby top 5 because someone would have to pass him and all these horses are pretty bad (see War Emblem). So why not take a shot with a horse that was going to be 15-1 or more who at least will be on or very very near the lead. I didn't post a plan for him because no one asked me.

Originally Posted by whodey17

To be fair to Zito, he has done some good training jobs. War Pass was not completely 100% healthy for the Tampa Bay Derby. Then he puts the horse in a spot (The Wood) knowing that it was highly unlikely he would get the distance. Then the horse goes out there and runs blazing fractions in the Wood. I think it is up to the trainer to know what type of horse he/she has (this mistake happens all the time). Zito should have known War Pass was a horse that was better at distances between 7 furlongs and 1 1/16 miles. Some believe the plan was good for War Pass. But the plan didn't work. Some people on this board believe that when a plan doesn't work then the horse was mismanaged. For me, I think the plan for War Pass should have been a plan that included the Preakness instead of the Derby if you wanted to run in a Triple Crown race. However, he should have been pointed to the Met Mile.

Usually owners call the shots with Derby horses, not trainers. They were smart to do what they did. He always had a small shot if the track came up sloppy. If they didn't try and it rained that day they would never forgive themselves.

Zito already has an older horse that is targeting the Met Mile and there is no reason to run 3yr olds against older horses that early in the year.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Usually owners call the shots with Derby horses, not trainers. They were smart to do what they did. He always had a small shot if the track came up sloppy. If they didn't try and it rained that day they would never forgive themselves.

Zito already has an older horse that is targeting the Met Mile and there is no reason to run 3yr olds against older horses that early in the year.

I would normally agree with your statement that owners call the shots. But LaPenta values Zito's opinion greatly and I am sure Zito could have talked him out of running War Pass in the Derby. I would say the blame should be shared between the two of them. And if Zito has a horse already being pointed to the Met Mile, then run War Pass in the Preakness. Heck, they have Cool Coal Man for the Derby. If Cool Coal Man wins the Derby then they have two for the Preakness. If CCM doesnt win the Derby, then you have War Pass for the Preakness and CCM for the Belmont with a 5 week layoff.