Doubling the DWC to 12 million, WOW!!!

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Kinda stifling in here on this subject, if you don’t toe the line and fall in with the crowd on this issue. You either must subscribe to the idea that Sheik Mo is single-handedly destroying the game, or you’re called out by the host as perpetuating “utterly ridiculous” ideas. Given the number of truly ridiculous ideas put forth on here that is truly an ignoble honor.

I not a shill and don’t agree with everything that is done by Sheik Mo and associates, but some of the arguments put forth against him seem like a stretch and somewhat hypocritical.

AJ

I apologize if I gave too critical and strongly-worded a reply, but I'll argue that it's not 'stifling in here' on this topic. We have a very real problem in North American racing thanks to Sheik Mo, and it very well may be impossible to stem the tide.

I'm curious what arguments put forth against Darley are a stretch or hypocritical? What I found difficult to justify is the notion that Mo deserves an ounce of thanks or iota of recognition for anything that constitutes noble conduct or fair play.

And it isn't that I have no appreciation for the Doobies.. Mo's own brother, (Sh. Hamdam/Shadwell), operates like a gentleman and sportsman with an eye on contributing to the game on a worldwide basis and can be applauded for the way he runs his operation. It's just that we're getting way too much Mo...

[Cannon Shell]

I dont understand why someone has to be labeled "good" or "bad " for the game. A lot of Sheik Mo's money filters back into the game when he buys super expensive horses. That is good. A lot of the horses he buys are retired at first chance or never reach their full potential. That is bad. I also never understand when people fawn over mega rich guys spending money (unless the fawner is getting it, that is totally understandable). He has tens of billions at his disposal and happens to spend hundreds of millions on this sport. He doesnt really run his organization as a business even though it is a huge entity. A business is something that is created to make money and I hardly think he makes a profit. What he wants is to be known as the best and spends to do it. He is not much different than George Stienbrenner in that respect. His breeding aspirations have caused some horses to be retired early but who really thinks that they wouldnt be retired if he had not bought them? He is spending more money than anyone which always makes a nice target but the World Cup and carnival can hardly be declared harmful to the sport overall especially including the international effect. Does it take some of our best horses away from traditional races like the Big Cap? Sure, but a $12 million dollar race may be the one thing that keeps many of the marginal stallion prospects in training for an extra season.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No one has said the World Cup or Carnival is harmful for the sport. But the retiring early is no matter how much people want to pretend it isn't.

the ppl who own the horses before do not have to sell, if they cared for the game they would not sell.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

the ppl who own the horses before do not have to sell, if they cared for the game they would not sell.

LOL

If someone offered you 5 million dollars for a 2 million dollar horse, you wouldn't sell?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

LOL

If someone offered you 5 million dollars for a 2 million dollar horse, you wouldn't sell?

If I was a billionaire? No. In almost any other circumstance, yes. And in a lot of these situations you are talking about $50 million for a $20 million dollar horse, which even a billionaire has to look at.

[pgiaco]

Originally Posted by Scav

LOL

If someone offered you 5 million dollars for a 2 million dollar horse, you wouldn't sell?

I'd swim with the horse on my back to the UAE.

[Linny]

What level of wealth makes a person "greedy" for accepting a huge offer. I am assuming that most of us are "middle class." Most of us have never been extremely wealthy. Most of us would sell pretty quickly if a significant offer came in. What if you were already worth $10million? What about $30m? or $100m? At what level are you "set for life" and just being greedy for taking a monster offer? Who's to say? Are you less greedy if you set aside $Xm of the "take" to fund a charity, or establish a trust for the care of your disabled niece?
As you can see, it's complicated. Most of the people campaigning top racehorses are wealthy people. Mr Tafel is extremely wealthy. Mr Porter is not as rich, but he's richer than most of the world. The WinStar folks are professional horsemen/breeders who run their operation as a business.
I am not associated with Sh. Mo or Godolphin in any way. I would prefer to see him race horses like Hard Spun and Street Sense. Hard Spun would have waltzed in the Godolphin Mile and I'd have loved to see it. I'd love it if some of the money he spends would trickle down to me. As Cannon said, an awful lot of that money goes back into more breeding stock, more horses and more racing. If DeeTee got an offer from Dubai what would it do? My guess is take it, and invest in more horses.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Linny

What level of wealth makes a person "greedy" for accepting a huge offer. I am assuming that most of us are "middle class." Most of us have never been extremely wealthy. Most of us would sell pretty quickly if a significant offer came in. What if you were already worth $10million? What about $30m? or $100m? At what level are you "set for life" and just being greedy for taking a monster offer? Who's to say? Are you less greedy if you set aside $Xm of the "take" to fund a charity, or establish a trust for the care of your disabled niece?
As you can see, it's complicated. Most of the people campaigning top racehorses are wealthy people. Mr Tafel is extremely wealthy. Mr Porter is not as rich, but he's richer than most of the world. The WinStar folks are professional horsemen/breeders who run their operation as a business.
I am not associated with Sh. Mo or Godolphin in any way. I would prefer to see him race horses like Hard Spun and Street Sense. Hard Spun would have waltzed in the Godolphin Mile and I'd have loved to see it. I'd love it if some of the money he spends would trickle down to me. As Cannon said, an awful lot of that money goes back into more breeding stock, more horses and more racing. If DeeTee got an offer from Dubai what would it do? My guess is take it, and invest in more horses.

We would take the money and send them PG1985 as an offering of our appreciation.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No one has said the World Cup or Carnival is harmful for the sport. But the retiring early is no matter how much people want to pretend it isn't.

True but if you look at the whole picture you have to include the positives also. Really he is trying to become the dominant player in the breeding business, probably for reasons of ego. His admitted rivals at Coolmore have been far ahead of him in that area and he simply has tried to corner the market by buying every top prospect. Not only does he get them to stand at his farms, Coolmore doesnt get them and it also forces them to pay more money if they decide to bid. Basically it is an billionaire's ego that drives him. I dont think that he will keep it up forever especially if one of his new acquisitions turns into the next big sire but he has raised the bar in the new stallion business really high and very few play there.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah, you make good points Chuck and I am in agreement with basically everything you say. I guess it irks me when I hear about how sporting he is for throwing money at people. I also find it kind of irritating that because Coolmore plays the breeding business game a lot better than he, his way of trying to counteract that is to just try and buy any and all viable prospects. I don't remember who, but someone compared him to Veruca Salt. I thought that was pretty clever.

The difference is that Coolmore is trying to make money, he isnt. I would also think that most of the people who call him "sporting" are either someway associated with him or want to be.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The difference is that Coolmore is trying to make money, he isnt. I would also think that most of the people who call him "sporting" are either someway associated with him or want to be.

Some of them want to be in his harem.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Kasept

AJ

I apologize if I gave too critical and strongly-worded a reply, but I'll argue that it's not 'stifling in here' on this topic. We have a very real problem in North American racing thanks to Sheik Mo, and it very well may be impossible to stem the tide.

I'm curious what arguments put forth against Darley are a stretch or hypocritical? What I found difficult to justify is the notion that Mo deserves an ounce of thanks or iota of recognition for anything that constitutes noble conduct or fair play.

And it isn't that I have no appreciation for the Doobies.. Mo's own brother, (Sh. Hamdam/Shadwell), operates like a gentleman and sportsman with an eye on contributing to the game on a worldwide basis and can be applauded for the way he runs his operation. It's just that we're getting way too much Mo...

I just felt that it’s a stretch to argue that Sheik Mo has destroyed the competitive balance of racing. How? By what measure? What circuit or races does he dominate? maybe i'm missing something here.

To me I think its a stretch to bash him for spending a lot of money on breeding stock. How does that ruin things for us? Why is it bad for us to have his millions flow through our hands? Does that not provide capital, jobs or opportunities for many? I’d like to know how reducing or eliminating his outlandish spending would be a positive for racing. as others have mentioned this spending goes in cycles, we may be in a peak period.

I am sympathetic on the early retirement issue. I believe that it would benefit all parties if he were to race at least some of his acquisitions for one or two years. But I do think it’s a stretch to argue that this practice alone is destroying racing. It has an effect on some races, yes. But lets face it, racing is not somehow markedly different or revived this year if Street Sense and Hard Spun were to each race five or six times. The problems with domestic racing are much bigger than merely the depth of the handicap division, and Sheik Mo is only part of that problem. There are other deep pocket players doing the same thing he does.

I just thought it was hypocritical to lay on his shoulders the blame for single-handedly decimating racing because of some three year old retirements while ignoring the financial benefit of his purchases or purses as they flow through our system, and ignoring our own domestic ruinous practices.

Why not give him an ounce of credit? Why isn’t the founding, funding, and promoting of the DWC, a sporting, or positive thing for racing? What other day comes close to that one in terms of pitting the worlds best against each other? It seems to be popular over here for fans, gamblers and horseman. I notice even on this board amongst those that think he’s abhorrent and ruining racing that there is an interest in the DWC. that’s what I thought was hypocritical.