Past Posting Proven once again.....perhaps 49 combinations of one race!!

[cmorioles]

Have the cancels loaded, watch the break, send or don't send. 3 to 5 seconds is more than enough time to see if my horse broke well or not.

[ArlJim78]

even if its only a 3-5 second window there are people that will find ways to exploit it. cmorioles is right, it gives you the benefit of knowing your horse got a clean break. they need to follow-up on things like that and make sure everything is tightened up.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Have the cancels loaded, watch the break, send or don't send. 3 to 5 seconds is more than enough time to see if my horse broke well or not.

Who is doing the canceling and why isnt that person being brought up on charges of some sort?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who is doing the canceling and why isnt that person being brought up on charges of some sort?

Growing up, there was always a 5 second delay (to cancel a ticket) after the start of a race that I believe was in place to leave tellers time to cancel any mistakes so they wouldn't have to eat the bet.

The situation was if you had a sprawling 3 room OTB on a weekday night when no one was there, you got Charlestown on the big screen in the empty room, and if your horse didn't break well in the 4.5 furlong dash, you cancel your bet and wait for the next one.

They did away with it about five years or so ago I believe. I certainly don't know of any betters or tellers or betting tellers who've done it since.

[Scav]

In this day in age, you would think these morons can equate the gates opening with closing pools, with a simple sensor. It is very simple from a logisitic side. What they should do is very very simple.

Put sensors on all the gates, and when ALL of those sensors are opened, wagering closes, and what you do is give one of the morons in the stewards booth a switch and tell him to click that button once the gates open.

And lets say one of the horses pops open the gate by accident, well that wouldn't close the pools becuase ALL of them would have to open. Simple f'n technology.

Problem with this industry is that there is a bunch of old goats running it, and a bunch of younger tech savy people wanting to get into it, but the goats fear change. Just bad bad business models.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to get into this again. If I bet a speed horse and he gets out bad, I'd love to cancel my ticket.

Especially if I am dropping several thousand on a race like the whale from FG.
To bad we can't find out what race and when this security system is talking about so we can see whether it is a pool the size of Charles Town on a Sunday or CD on a Saturday. They do ONE sample test and this is what they find. The chances of hitting a positive sample with one trial implies a very prevalent event!!! Scary stuff and yes this board has exhausted the subject previously but what if this happened on a BC or Derby day. I think Bloodhorse has an obligation to provide more info if they are going to print that. This is like walking into a movie theatre and screaming fire because you see a trash can being put out in the lobby the hysteria to the sold out movie just reacts to the alarm they have no idea the danger is under control

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Especially if I am dropping several thousand on a race like the whale from FG.
To bad we can't find out what race and when this security system is talking about so we can see whether it is a pool the size of Charles Town on a Sunday or CD on a Saturday. They do ONE sample test and this is what they find. The chances of hitting a positive sample with one trial implies a very prevalent event!!! Scary stuff and yes this board has exhausted the subject previously but what if this happened on a BC or Derby day. I think Bloodhorse has an obligation to provide more info if they are going to print that. This is like walking into a movie theatre and screaming fire because you see a trash can being put out in the lobby the hysteria to the sold out movie just reacts to the alarm they have no idea the danger is under control

It just seems implausable that this isnt against some law of some sort? It is one thing if I walk up and am making bets and the pools dont close exactly on time because some kind of systems error (Not that that is acceptable) but to actually cancel wagers after the race has taken place with full intent to do so (which you would have to have in order to have the tickets ready to cancel) seems criminal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

Criminal and dishonest in my view as well. The player who exploits this is obviously cheating. Criminal charges would be hard to pursue unless, the racetracks and OTB/simulcasting outlets are charged as well.
It wouldn't be too much of a stretch for any player getting charged to use the "entrapment" defense since the player isn't illegally breaking into a system that's been closed already.

That is my whole point! The player cant do this without inside help which surely has to be against the law in some fashion.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to get into this again. If I bet a speed horse and he gets out bad, I'd love to cancel my ticket.

But wouldnt you actually have access to the pools through a tote machine to cancel that quickly ?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Come on Chuck, you know what we are saying.

And you know what I am saying. If there is someone with knowledge that the pools will stay open long enough to cancel bets there has to be some kind of violation of some law, no?

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And you know what I am saying. If there is someone with knowledge that the pools will stay open long enough to cancel bets there has to be some kind of violation of some law, no?

For there to be a violation of law, there has to be malicious intent, and that might be tough to prove in this case.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by justindew

For there to be a violation of law, there has to be malicious intent, and that might be tough to prove in this case.

Thanks Atticus Finch.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Thanks Atticus Finch.

Sorry for making a relevant point that no one had considered and which would explain why prosecuting people who cancel after the bell is a practical impossibility.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

Sorry for making a relevant point that no one had considered and which would explain why prosecuting people who cancel after the bell is a practical impossibility.

I find it hard to believe that manipulation of betting pools is legal regardless of your legal expertise

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by justindew

Sorry for making a relevant point that no one had considered and which would explain why prosecuting people who cancel after the bell is a practical impossibility.

Don't apologize.

If you in fact are a lawyer or law enforcement, I apologize for my flippant comment and await your next opinion regarding this matter with bated breath.

[deltagulf]

Originally Posted by justindew

For there to be a violation of law, there has to be malicious intent, and that might be tough to prove in this case.

why if cancelled the bettor has seen his horse or horses have no change of ticket coming in. some law against that.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by deltagulf

why if cancelled the bettor has seen his horse or horses have no change of ticket coming in. some law against that.

So then you're going to have to have some set standard as to when a horse is deemed to have "no chance" after the start. Does anyone really think we are going to see a law that says "when a confirmed front runner breaks slower than usual, he is herby deemed to have no chance. And any tickets using this horse that are cancelled after the start of the race, intentionally or unintentionally, can be used as proof of illegal activity"?

Prosecuting people for cancelling tickets at any time is impossible unless there is some other overt act, such as hacking into a computer or pushing a button that keep the pools open longer than allowed by law.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

So then you're going to have to have some set standard as to when a horse is deemed to have "no chance" after the start. Does anyone really think we are going to see a law that says "when a confirmed front runner breaks slower than usual, he is herby deemed to have no chance. And any tickets using this horse that are cancelled after the start of the race, intentionally or unintentionally, can be used as proof of illegal activity"?

Prosecuting people for cancelling tickets at any time is impossible unless there is some other overt act, such as hacking into a computer or pushing a button that keep the pools open longer than allowed by law.

According to what we are hearing, at least publically, they would have no idea if this was happening anyway.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yes. I imagine a law or two is being broken by many parties. I'm no lawyer, obviously, so I'm not sure which one. I am curious though, why does this issue get under your skin so much?

I'm not sure why you think that? If someone is knowingly manipulating the pools either before or after the race has gone off there should be a criminal investigation. Do you not have the same opinion?

[cmorioles]

Any canceling should be ended when the bell goes off, and likely even before. Allowing this is just plain silly.