Georgie Boy

[SCUDSBROTHER]

The synthetic to dirt move is an issue,but it's overstated.It's a concern,but not a reason to totally toss horses.Some horses are going to do well on both.A horse with a big stride (like Gayego's, for instance) might actually like the dirt better.Georgie Boy? I don't know,but I wouldn't just toss a horse with that much heart.

[ArlJim78]

Interesting tidbit about Big Booster, he broke his maiden at first asking at Belmont at 1 mile on dirt (off turf). running second? Kittens Joy.

[miraja2]

I certainly didn't think there would be a "Big Booster" debate on the board today. Unless I am forgetting something, I don't think the horse has ever cracked the exacta in any graded stakes race on any surface....let alone win one.
Doesn't he basically just stink regardless of the surface?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I certainly didn't think there would be a "Big Booster" debate on the board today. Unless I am forgetting something, I don't think the horse has ever cracked the exacta in any graded stakes race on any surface....let alone win one.
Doesn't he basically just stink regardless of the surface?

yes, basically thats right. the topic veered off on to Big Booster because of a throwaway statement I made about him while trying to stimulate a different discussion.
He has not been anything exceptional on turf throughout his career, and he is not exceptional now in California on synthetic. He is better on turf and synthetic than dirt. not a big story really.

[RolloTomasi]

Just to add one more ingredient in case anyone wanted to keep the Big Booster debate alive...

He was gelded last year (as was Sun Boat) when claimed by Mike Mitchell and brought to CA.

Not sure if the public was notified in a timely manner when he paid $50, though.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Big Booster ran 8th for Mike Mitchell in his first start after he was gelded. Than came his synthetic debut win over Heatseeker.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Big Booster ran 8th for Mike Mitchell in his first start after he was gelded. Than came his synthetic debut win over Heatseeker.

I know, I bet him. Just ran around without making a move that day. I think he was coming off a bit of a layoff that day.

Of course, I failed to bet him back.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

yes, basically thats right. the topic veered off on to Big Booster because of a throwaway statement I made about him while trying to stimulate a different discussion.

I wasn't trying to ignore what you asked. It is tough off the top of my head to list horses that fit your criteria. I think I know where you are going, and that is that horses seem fine moving from synthetic to dirt. I will agree it is more common for horses to move in that direction than vise versa.

There are plenty that don't take to dirt though. Just looking at Tuesday I found the following no name horses that seem to have a preference for synthetic. Synthetic races are in blue, dirt brown, grass green...most recent race to the left. They are overall performance ratings, each one a race, and do take into account maturation, pace, speed, etc...Beyer scale.

6  Just You and I Kid     15    40    37    39
4  Finale's Gold          44    13    21    64    54    21    48    50    57    58
6  Circular Reasoning     60    43    50    65    61    79    76    41    66    60
5  Payment in Kind        58    56    60    67    58    58    57    37    68    78
7  Jake's Da Man          29    52    62    55    63    54    59    49    67    59
8  Sterling Justice       35    39    47    33    31
7  Dancinginocidental     63    48    70    67    60    64    60    46    58    54

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I wasn't trying to ignore what you asked. It is tough off the top of my head to list horses that fit your criteria. I think I know where you are going, and that is that horses seem fine moving from synthetic to dirt. I will agree it is more common for horses to move in that direction than vise versa.

There are plenty that don't take to dirt though. Just looking at Tuesday I found the following no name horses that seem to have a preference for synthetic. Synthetic races are in blue, dirt brown, grass green...most recent race to the left. They are overall performance ratings, each one a race, and do take into account maturation, pace, speed, etc...Beyer scale.

6  Just You and I Kid     15    40    37    39
4  Finale's Gold          44    13    21    64    54    21    48    50    57    58
6  Circular Reasoning     60    43    50    65    61    79    76    41    66    60
5  Payment in Kind        58    56    60    67    58    58    57    37    68    78
7  Jake's Da Man          29    52    62    55    63    54    59    49    67    59
8  Sterling Justice       35    39    47    33    31
7  Dancinginocidental     63    48    70    67    60    64    60    46    58    54

yeah I know, I'm not familiar with those horses by name, I'll have to look them up. thats basically where I was going. my idea is that its not as hard for a horse in sharp form on synthetic to take to dirt, as it is for SOME dirt horses to take their sharp form to synthetic. Its kinda hard to back it up though because there is not a lot of shippers out of CA to dirt tracks.
If I pay attention to horses that ship out of Arlington this year I might be able to back it up.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

The synthetic to dirt move is an issue,but it's overstated.It's a concern,but not a reason to totally toss horses.Some horses are going to do well on both.A horse with a big stride (like Gayego's, for instance) might actually like the dirt better.Georgie Boy? I don't know,but I wouldn't just toss a horse with that much heart.

I agree and will be looking at a Synthetic to Dirt horse for the Derby. I can see know reason to increase your horses chances of injury before the big race you are pointing to. Racing and training on synthetics has benifits over dirt and if your horse takes to the dirt then you will cash a very nice ticket.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I agree and will be looking at a Synthetic to Dirt horse for the Derby. I can see know reason to increase your horses chances of injury before the big race you are pointing to. Racing and training on synthetics has benifits over dirt and if your horse takes to the dirt then you will cash a very nice ticket.

I agree. I think every G1 should be contested only by firsters who have had all of their career workouts in a recovery pool.
Just think of all those fresh, healthy horses running against each other! It surely would be racing at its absolute best.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I agree. I think every G1 should be contested only by firsters who have had all of their career workouts in a recovery pool.
Just think of all those fresh, healthy horses running against each other! It surely would be racing at its absolute best.

It worked for Sunnys Halo

[2Hot4TV]

Kent Desormeaux will ride Grade 1 hero GEORGIE BOY (Tribal Rule) in the April 5 Santa Anita Derby (G1), trainer Kathy Walsh announced Thursday. Michael Baze, who was suspended three days (March 24, 27 and 28) for causing interference in Sunday's 8TH race at Santa Anita, guided the dark bay gelding to his recent San Felipe S. (G2) victory after regular rider Rafael Bejarano was injured. "It was a tough call, but it was a mutual decision," Walsh explained. "Michael is a fine rider and did a good job in the San Felipe, but (owner/breeder) Mr. (George) Schwary felt a more experienced rider was in order, even though Kent is tied up for the Big Dance (May 3 Kentucky Derby [G1])."...

Is this guy nuts????

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Kathy Walsh isn't a guy.

Unless you mean the owner - and in that case - I don't blame him for wanting a more expierienced rider.

Glad you guys got the synthetic to dirt
thing figured out for the Derby hopefuls.

Since there
are years and years of data...
I kind think this was Arljims point.
Maybe not.

Just watch what happens if one of these
syn. prep horses wins the Derby coming out of
the West. Or if they run 2 or 3 horses in the top 5.
I cant wait
for the trendy swing in training.

Seems its a mess to me.
Which in itself makes all this very
entertaining. Cant wait to see how
the next 5 years play out.

[mbahadur]

At this writing, the probables for the Arkansas Derby are King's Silver Son, Golden Yank and Z Fortune, the second, fourth and fifth finishers, respectively, in the Rebel; Georgie Boy and Bob Black Jack from California, and Blackberry Road from Louisiana.

Trainer Kathy Walsh has engaged a new rider, Kent Desormeaux, for San Felipe winner Georgie Boy, whose other option is the Santa Anita Derby.

Majestic Warrior and Liberty Bull are possibilities for the Arkansas Derby.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I agree and will be looking at a Synthetic to Dirt horse for the Derby. I can see know reason to increase your horses chances of injury before the big race you are pointing to. Racing and training on synthetics has benifits over dirt and if your horse takes to the dirt then you will cash a very nice ticket.

Well,here is what I do if I own either Georgie Boy,or Gayego etc.If your horse is indeed better on synthetic than dirt,then I don't think you want to find out on Derby Day.There are a lot of ways to make money with 3 year olds this year(including going back on synthetic.)For me,I would want my horse to try dirt in a race that isn't as tough (or dangerous) as the Derby.In prior years,I also would have sent them back there,because our dirt tracks weren't tiring enough to really give horses their best chance to get ready.Giacomo did it,but he had a thang for Churchill.I would run in the Arkansas Derby(not THE SANTA ANITA DERBY.) The synthetic/dirt transfer is important enough for me to want to try dirt before the Derby,but I do think it's overkill to toss horses who haven't tried dirt before trying the Derby.They are all gunna try working over Churchill.If they look awful over it,then toss.