Big Truck - NY bred

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgiaco

Yes, the Teuflesberg-True Advantage foal will be a NY bred, also toying with the idea of sending a With Approval mare to him.
I agree that the NY stallion roster is getting deeper, but the loss of Catienus to KY hurts. Utopia and the rest of the new stallions have big shoes to fill.

It is going to be hard to attract top stallion prospects to NY simply because the majority of 'real NYbred mares' owners arent willing to pay high stud fees. A vast majority of the KY sired NYbreds arent resident NY mares, just people playing the system. State bred programs are great for smaller owners in many ways but in some ways do not give great incentive for mare owners to upgrade their quality. I have asked a number of top stud farms in KY why they dont set up smaller operations in NY and they all pretty much thought that the majority of breeders wont support a $15000 and up stallion. Maybe they are not correct but it seems odd that no one is really trying especially in light of the slot money that is looming.

[pgiaco]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is going to be hard to attract top stallion prospects to NY simply because the majority of 'real NYbred mares' owners arent willing to pay high stud fees. A vast majority of the KY sired NYbreds arent resident NY mares, just people playing the system. State bred programs are great for smaller owners in many ways but in some ways do not give great incentive for mare owners to upgrade their quality. I have asked a number of top stud farms in KY why they dont set up smaller operations in NY and they all pretty much thought that the majority of breeders wont support a $15000 and up stallion. Maybe they are not correct but it seems odd that no one is really trying especially in light of the slot money that is looming.

Cannon, I guess the farms in KY would know better, but I know several NY breeders who would support a higher end stallion or 2 in NY, especially with the looming slot money. By the time you ship a mare and pay KY sales tax on the season the cost becomes quite prohibitive. I for one would definitely support an upper end stallion that stood here.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgiaco

Cannon, I guess the farms in KY would know better, but I know several NY breeders who would support a higher end stallion or 2 in NY, especially with the looming slot money. By the time you ship a mare and pay KY sales tax on the season the cost becomes quite prohibitive. I for one would definitely support an upper end stallion that stood here.

I know several people that would and some of the lesser KY stallions would be great fits in NY. Louisiana is another state that needs stallion support especially considering their breedback rules are very rigid. They have a great program but the stallions are horrible.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I know several people that would and some of the lesser KY stallions would be great fits in NY. Louisiana is another state that needs stallion support especially considering their breedback rules are very rigid. They have a great program but the stallions are horrible.

Breedback rules?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Breedback rules?

You need to get a second date before you understand

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You need to get a second date before you understand

I am literally speechless right now, all my comebacks that I have typed don't do your response its worthyness....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I am literally speechless right now, all my comebacks that I have typed don't do your response its worthyness....

This is enough...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Which stallions do you have in mind?

Mutakddim, Petionville, Northern Afleet, Honour and Glory, Sir Cherokee

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Mutakddim, Petionville, Northern Afleet, Honour and Glory, Sir Cherokee

We sent our mare to Honour and Glory this year. She is in foal and will ship back to NY soon.

[sumitas]

That is wonderful. All the best with the happy mom and foal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

All of them would fare well here, I suspect.

Apart from his effectiveness as a stallion, I was a HUGE fan of Honour and Glory.

I do not have numbers available, but aren't the first four stallions capable of siring dirt and turf progeny? (I'm unfamiliar with Sir Cherokee as a stallion.)

Mutakddim is a really good racehorse sire as is Petionville but neither are real commercial. They wuld be great in NY. I am not a big fan of Northern Afleet and I dont think he is a good fit as a KY stallion, more of regional type. Honour and Glory is a decent sire who ould also be better making NYBreds. I like Sir Cherokee as a sire but I dont know if he will get a fair shake in KY. I always considered Cape Town as an ideal NY type sire since he is pretty versitile but he has fertility issues

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Mutakddim is a really good racehorse sire as is Petionville but neither are real commercial. They wuld be great in NY. I am not a big fan of Northern Afleet and I dont think he is a good fit as a KY stallion, more of regional type. Honour and Glory is a decent sire who ould also be better making NYBreds. I like Sir Cherokee as a sire but I dont know if he will get a fair shake in KY. I always considered Cape Town as an ideal NY type sire since he is pretty versitile but he has fertility issues

Mutakddim could be a very good sire if he had better sponsorship..Moving him to NY with more crappy mares want help.

Getting a Straightman to NY would be great but I don't see him leaving Fla anytime soon.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Mutakddim could be a very good sire if he had better sponsorship..Moving him to NY with more crappy mares want help.

Getting a Straightman to NY would be great but I don't see him leaving Fla anytime soon.

The mares he gets now are NY level mares and he would probably wind up with better mares there

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I suspect that you have heard of longtime drive-time WFAN radio personality Mike Francesa. He is a big race fan and owns a few horses in the name of Summer Wind Stable, I believe.

In the spring of 2003, a friend of mine introduced me to him in the owners' boxes at Belmont. He said something about Mutakddim that I found perplexing, and I remember it clearly.

Francesa said that a Fasig-Tipton representative told him that at the time (2003), there was a lack of people who wanted to breed to him because of his the muslim reference to his name. I had a very hard time believing that people wouldn't want to breed to a horse for this reason. It sounded bizarre.

Did you ever hear anything along those lines about Mutakddim about five years ago?

it does sound bizarre. and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it were true.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Francesa said that a Fasig-Tipton representative told him that at the time (2003), there was a lack of people who wanted to breed to him because of his the muslim reference to his name. I had a very hard time believing that people wouldn't want to breed to a horse for this reason. It sounded bizarre.

Did you ever hear anything along those lines about Mutakddim about five years ago?

There was a Group 1 winning horse in Europe in the 90's named Hamas. He was sired by Danzig and out of the legendary broodmare Fall Aspen.

While a giant bust at stud, interestingly enough, the most accomplished son of Hamas so far is Istanbul horse of the year Akindayim. He's won over 20 races and made what amounts to $950,000. Akindayim races are on YouTube - including his win in the Group 1 Sultan Mehmet The Conqueror Cup.

The only real good horse I ever remember Mutakddim siring was Lady Tak, and she was only a $7,500 yearling.

[sumitas]

Was Lady Tak the one that upset Dream Supreme at the spa?

The sire thing, Mutakddim has good, solid numbers across the board. I'm still excited about Golden Missile in NY.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Did Fall Aspen produce Woodman, or did she produce Timber Country (or both)?

She produced Timber Country - no for Woodman. Really, she has to be considered one of the greatest broodmares ever. She's the dam of...

* Northern Apsen (Grade 1 winner in America, Gr 2 winner in Europe)

* Elle Seule (Group 2 winner in France. Dam of 2 Gr 1 winners)

* Mazzacano (Gr 3 winner, 2nd in Gr 1)

* Colorado Dancer (Gr 2 winner, dam of the great Dubai Millennium)

* Hamas (Gr 1 winner)

* Fort Wood (Gr 1 winner. Sire of Horse Chestnut)

* Timber Country (Won GR 1 BC Juvenile and Preakness)

* Prince of Thieves (3rd in the Kentucky Derby)

* Bianconi (Gr 2 winner)

Originally Posted by Cardus

Lady Tak was a nice horse. She ran in the Ballerina (?) at Saratoga -- I wast there and I thought that it was Travers Day -- and I remember a friend of mine telling me that she was going to be right on the pace, if not the pacesetter. I thought that he was crazy, since she had emerged from a series of route races, if memory serves.

Sure enough, she was right on top of the pace, and I think that she had the lead after a half in 45 and change.

She had an explosive turn move for a speed miler type horse - I know she won both the Test and Ballerina at Saratoga - but I think she actually ran a 23 flat 3rd quarter when she won the Test...it probably is the fastest 3rd quarter this decade by any horse in a 7f furlong Saratoga race.

I'm not sure if her Ballerina win was Travers day or not....could have been the day after the Travers maybe.