Denis of Cork's stock on the rise

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Danzig

denis of cork has been getting more attention as horses he has beaten have since gone on to win other stakes races. the two horses who finished second and third in the southwest to Denis have now won the rebel and winstar derby. it would be safe to say that the southwest has turned into a key race, since that field has since produced winners.

also, jcs, the owner and trainer of denis of cork have decided to run him only once more pre-derby, as they have done their homework and feel he is set to peak in two races time-which is now the ky derby on his schedule, rather than the arkansas derby.

i realize that....
i just dont like dennis of cork, i know i wont be using him... also feel he has little shot to win the the wood. maybe place but not win

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i realize that....
i just dont like dennis of cork, i know i wont be using him... also feel he has little shot to win the the wood. maybe place but not win

can you explain why you don't like him please?

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

can you explain why you don't like him please?

i really dont know, i actually bet him to win and place last time out and cashed on him... just as far as the derby i dont like him

dont like his running style, dont think he can get the distance, dont like his trainer....

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i really dont know, i actually bet him to win and place last time out and cashed on him... just as far as the derby i dont like him

dont like his running style, dont think he can get the distance, dont like his trainer....

great reasoning. . . what's wrong with his running style? why can't he get the distance? what about his trainer don't you like?

[Danzig]

i don't like kent desormeuax much...didn't keep me from betting on (and winning with) loose leaf at 11-1 last june.


also, denis' trainer expects him to regress in the wood, and then run his best in the derby-which is why they're going that route.
it may be a mistake to discount him, since, unlike many others, horses he has defeated have gone on to win their next out.

i'm not sure yet who my derby pick will be, but i will consider all who make the field when the time comes.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

. . why can't he get the distance? ?

It's called 'fitness'. DoC will have had 4 starts lifetime going into the Derby and the last horse who did that was Exterminator, who had been purchased as a work horse for the better fancied Sun Briar and was substituted at the last minute when SB came up lame. And frankly, the best 3yos were pointed to the Belmont more than the Ky Derby in those days (Man o' War skipped it, using the Preakness for a prep race).

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

No, but I don't see a Street Sense or Hard Spun in this field to worry about and there is no guarantee he'll draw a bad post like Curlin did. Is there any horse that will actually be going into the Derby this year that will be fast, fit, and free of question marks?

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

No, but I don't see a Street Sense or Hard Spun in this field to worry about and there is no guarantee he'll draw a bad post like Curlin did. Is there any horse that will actually be going into the Derby this year that will be fast, fit, and free of question marks?

Just in case that was not a rhetorical question....Not that I see so far!

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

It's called 'fitness'. DoC will have had 4 starts lifetime going into the Derby and the last horse who did that was Exterminator, who had been purchased as a work horse for the better fancied Sun Briar and was substituted at the last minute when SB came up lame. And frankly, the best 3yos were pointed to the Belmont more than the Ky Derby in those days (Man o' War skipped it, using the Preakness for a prep race).

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

Comparing Denis to Curlin is pretty much a worthless comparison. Different horses, different trips, etc... And Curlin did get 3rd behind two horses that seem to be better than anyone from this crop. Denis has a little 2 year old foundation so I'm not too worried about his fitness level.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Denis is my Derby pick. I'm still sick that we didn't buy him at the Barrett's sale last year.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

It's called 'fitness'. DoC will have had 4 starts lifetime going into the Derby and the last horse who did that was Exterminator, who had been purchased as a work horse for the better fancied Sun Briar and was substituted at the last minute when SB came up lame. And frankly, the best 3yos were pointed to the Belmont more than the Ky Derby in those days (Man o' War skipped it, using the Preakness for a prep race).

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

it's a whole new game. i tossed barbaro, even tho i kept coming back to him, knowing full well he was the best of the bunch--all because of the 'history' of running in the derby so long after a previous race. those things no longer apply, none of the horses these days are particularly seasoned.

Now Denis of Cork is being indirectly compared to Curlin and Barbaro.

This stuff is hilarious.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i really dont know, i actually bet him to win and place last time out and cashed on him... just as far as the derby i dont like him

dont like his running style, dont think he can get the distance, dont like his trainer....

It is of course impossible to know which horses will like 10f before they attempt it, but in my opinion, this horse looks like one who is more likely than most to handle that distance. His sire (Harlan's Holiday) was a pretty decent two-turn horse who is apparently turning out to be a better sire than many thought he would be. Harlans Holiday's dam-side pedigree is loaded with stamina (Affirmed, Honest Pleasure, and of course, Princequillo) so there is every reason to think that he could be a decent stamina influence as a sire.
Denis of Cork's dam's sire is KD and BCC winning Unbridled (AWD: 7.8) so there isn't really a reason to dismiss him because of that side either.

As for his running style, I haven't seen anything there which would disqualify him from being a 10f horse either.

He might turn out to simply not be very good, but I don't think it is probable that distance limitations will be his biggest problem.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by miraja2

It is of course impossible to know which horses will like 10f before they attempt it, but in my opinion, this horse looks like one who is more likely than most to handle that distance. His sire (Harlan's Holiday) was a pretty decent two-turn horse who is apparently turning out to be a better sire than many thought he would be. Harlans Holiday's dam-side pedigree is loaded with stamina (Affirmed, Honest Pleasure, and of course, Princequillo) so there is every reason to think that he could be a decent stamina influence as a sire.
Denis of Cork's dam's sire is KD and BCC winning Unbridled (AWD: 7.8) so there isn't really a reason to dismiss him because of that side either.

As for his running style, I haven't seen anything there which would disqualify him from being a 10f horse either.

He might turn out to simply not be very good, but I don't think it is probable that distance limitations will be his biggest problem.

i prefer a more speedy, tactical type