War Pass --DB ?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well Bruce not exactly. No one said Zito doesn't make mistakes. Certainly not me. In your pathetic attempt to get me, you missed the arguement here. Scuds said Zito doesn't know what he is doing sometimes and only wins because of his stock. I responded that Zito picks these horses out as yearlings, so he is the one that picks out his stock. Shockingly there was no response to that.

Then he said Zito doesn't know what he is doing, because one year he had 5 in the Derby and none of the horses won. I mention pletcher had the same thing happen, again, no response. They're not machines Bruce, they have off days. War Pass had one yesterday.

That's real life, grandpa.

I am not gunna respond all afternoon to your crap.This is it...KAPUT

1)Yes,he can use LA PENTA'S money to buy derby level horses....Big deal..They outbid people.
2)If Pletcher put 5 horses in 1 derby,and none of them hit the board,then he didn't know wtf he was doing at the time.That would seem obvious.If ya want to hire trainers without measuring them by performance ,then be my guest. ..We have this KNAPP guy you would adore.

I am not reading the rest.So,I ain't ignoring you.I just ain't reading your waste anymore.Like a vet told me about a dog one time..."He is a poop machine."

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

1)Yes,he can use LA PENTA'S money to buy derby level horses....Big deal..They outbid people.

War Pass only costed $180K. . . LaPenta doesn't have money like the sheiks or coolmore. . . He's definitely not outbidding them

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

War Pass only costed $180K. . . LaPenta doesn't have money like the sheiks or coolmore. . . He's definitely not outbidding them

Picking out a horse that only cost 180,000 as a yearling, which is definitely not cheap for a yearling, that goes on to be a champion isn't that unusual.

Another certain trainer is worth mentioning in this circumstance. He picked out two champions as two-year-olds in training. Usually, good two-year-olds in training go for much more than good yearlings. Both horses cost $75,000 or less. One won the KD and Preakness, the other was a turf champion. This is a trainer that continues to climb the ranks with less quality stock than a lot of these guys like Zito.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Picking out a horse that only cost 180,000 as a yearling, which is definitely not cheap for a yearling, that goes on to be a champion isn't that unusual.

Another certain trainer is worth mentioning in this circumstance. He picked out two champions as two-year-olds in training. Usually, good two-year-olds in training go for much more than good yearlings. Both horses cost $75,000 or less. One won the KD and Preakness, the other was a turf champion. This is a trainer that continues to climb the ranks with less quality stock than a lot of these guys like Zito.

Try reading what I responded to. . .

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

More facts. Hmmm.

LMAO.

As for your awful rating of Stew Elliott, why don't you tell me how he's been the last year going long?

I'll save you time. 31% wins. Ave price $8.05 And you laugh at me thinking he's among the best after Ramon on the inner just cause someone who pats your back and knows a few things thinks so.

And it ain't all tanks he rides for Assmussen. His average Assman mount pays over $2.50. They certainly are not all tanks. Hardly.

Between this and your lack of elementary knowedge of the Inner maiden races, it's a wonder how you get by.

Like a great man would ask... credibility anyone?

[sumitas]

In the case of the weakened War Pass we know somebody screwed up. Either Zito or La Penta or both. We also know for sure that horse racing continues to deceive the public by not disclosing health issues surrounding the entrants to a race.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by sumitas

In the case of the weakened War Pass we know somebody screwed up. Either Zito or La Penta or both. We also know for sure that horse racing continues to screw the public by not disclosing health issues surrounding the entrants to a race.

Umm. . . how do we know that?

[sumitas]

There are no required health reports on any entrant to any race. War Pass was not healthy or they just threw the race.

[sumitas]

No I just mentioned it's one or the other. If War Pass was healthy then there is no explanation for his race other than the fix. Clearly War Pass was weakened. He was not himself prolly due to the fever.

After all, he was not in bad position, 3rd down the backstretch. So a healthy War Pass was not racing yesterday.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Oh my god. That's a new one, they threw the race. WHy would they do that?

i have no idea, that's hilarious.

i could see someone saying zito didn't know what he was doing just based on having 1/4th of the field one year, and not hitting the board. but his career would show you differently, since he has won the derby in the past. i would imagine he knows what he's doing.
i can only imagine the scathing posts if it was dwl training war pass and this had happened.

somehow tho, i don't think bill mott, matz, shug, or any number of trainers would get the grief nick is getting had they been involved with this horse.
i also think zito is taking a lot of heat about this horse, because his run yesterday was so out of the norm for him. it can't have just been the horse, so what else could it be but the trainer? i also remember the amount of posts calling 'bullsh!t' when afleet alex had his lung infection and ran poorly. ooops...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

As for your awful rating of Stew Elliott, why don't you tell me how he's been the last year going long?

I'll save you time. 31% wins. Ave price $8.05

Over the last 12 months, at all racetracks, Stewart Elliott has ridden in 465 route races - won 72 of them for a 15.5% win percentage - and his $2 ROI on those 465 mounts is $1.49

Basically, from a sample size of almost 500 rides - he wins about once per ever 6.5 mounts - and his mounts have lost 25.5% on the betting dollar, which is well above the win takeout.

Those are pretty mediocre stats - unless you compare him with fellow PG 1985 top ten national jockey Mario Pino.

Pino is 73-for-407 (18%) in routes - and his $2 ROI is $1.24. Which means that his mounts in route races lose a staggering 38% on the betting dollar. More than double the win takeout.

However, because guys like Elliott and Pino won big races on excellent horses like Smarty Jones and Hard Spun - people tend to overrate them.

Jockeys are a very overrated factor anyhow.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Over the last 12 months, at all racetracks, Stewart Elliott has ridden in 465 route races - won 72 of them for a 15.5% win percentage - and his $2 ROI on those 465 mounts is $1.49

Basically, from a sample size of almost 500 rides - he wins about once per ever 6.5 mounts - and his mounts have lost 25.5% on the betting dollar, which is well above the win takeout.

Those are pretty mediocre stats - unless you compare him with fellow PG 1985 top ten national jockey Mario Pino.

Pino is 73-for-407 (18%) in routes - and his $2 ROI is $1.24. Which means that his mounts in route races lose a staggering 38% on the betting dollar. More than double the win takeout.

However, because guys like Elliott and Pino won big races on excellent horses like Smarty Jones and Hard Spun - people tend to overrate them.

Jockeys are a very overrated factor anyhow.

I don't disagree with any of this. I do want to point out that though the win takeout is usually 17-18%, the average horse does not lose the track takeout. If you bet every horse, you'll lose about 25%. Just a little FYI for those that like to compare ROI to the takeout.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't disagree with any of this. I do want to point out that though the win takeout is usually 17-18%, the average horse does not lose the track takeout. If you bet every horse, you'll lose about 25%. Just a little FYI for those that like to compare ROI to the takeout.

Well sure, but if you do that you also get to come on here and brag endlessly about how you bet the winner.
Based on what I have seen on here recently, I am starting to think that is really the whole point for many people.