Denis of Cork passing Rebel; Wood next

Originally Posted by Kasept

I've admired Tagg's ability for a long time, but it is amazing how a guy no one knew beyond PA, MD and NY before 2003 is now talked about so reverentially. He had only been training 30 years before Funny Cide showed up. Now beloved as a crusty character, up to 2003 he was best known as a SOB... for a variety of good reasons.

David Carroll has been training 15 years and has been a consistant 15% winner. He's won stakes when he's had opportunities with good horses. Have to say I'm a bit mystified by animosity directed towards him.

I knew about Tagg well before 2003. And I tend to like SOB's rather than the ultra positive guys like Carroll who have good stock yet let Thorograph's dictate when and where that stock runs. I hope he was getting paid for that advertisement.

And really Carroll should have a consistant 15% clip with the stock he has. It's getting that stock to the next level that's been a problem. And with thorograph calling the shots that explains alot.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I knew about Tagg well before 2003. And I tend to like SOB's rather than the ultra positive guys like Carroll who have good stock yet let Thorograph's dictate when and where that stock runs. I hope he was getting paid for that advertisement.

And really Carroll should have a consistant 15% clip with the stock he has. It's getting that stock to the next level that's been a problem. And with thorograph calling the shots that explains alot.

I believe Mike Ryan is still managing Warren's racing stable so that may have been pointed out by him.

[Kasept]

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. And Frankel, Pletcher, Romans, Dutrow, Levine, and many more ALL make placement decisions with their stock based on the TG or Ragozin figures, and mention them as a matter of course. So don't make it out like Carroll is doing something bizarre or unheard of...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. And Frankel, Pletcher, Romans, Dutrow, Levine, and many more ALL make placement decisions with their stock based on the TG or Ragozin figures, and mention them as a matter of course. So don't make it out like Carroll is doing something bizarre or unheard of...

Denis of Cork is a TG horse?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Scav

Denis of Cork is a TG horse?

No.

Originally Posted by Kasept

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. And Frankel, Pletcher, Romans, Dutrow, Levine, and many more ALL make placement decisions with their stack based on the TG or Ragozin figures, and mention them as a matter of course. So don't make it out like Carroll is doing something bizarre or unheard of...

Do they all shill for tg in interviews like Carroll did?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Do they all shill for tg in interviews like Carroll did?

LOL.. Sort of.. They will say in passing "So-and-so ran a "#" on the TG/Rags and we don't want to bring him/her back too soon after that kind of a career best, etc.." They aren't doing it to curry favor... They just mention it as part of their evaluation process. Some are more vocal about it than others.

[Oaklawnfan]

Could it be remotely possible they didn't want to go up against Golden Yank?

Originally Posted by Kasept

LOL.. Sort of.. They will say in passing "So-and-so ran a "#" on the TG/Rags and we don't want to bring him/her back too soon after that kind of a career best, etc.." They aren't doing it to curry favor... They just mention it as part of their evaluation process. Some are more vocal about it than others.

I just don't get the reasoning. Athletes need conditioning and they definitely need to be put in situations where they face adversity.

What are they saving this inexperienced horse for? All I've seen and heard from this barn are excuses. They talked like he hated the off going yet his breeding definitely didn't show that he would have a disdain for it. He beat Unbridled Vicar and that horse has proven to be less than stellar. He got the perfect setup in the Southwest. And now they're skipping the Rebel and going for one more prep until the Derby?

This horse, to me, has serious soundness issues and I'm not buying what they're selling. I'll commend them on their publicity campaign, but I've seen too many of those throughout the years to fall for the hype.

[The Bid]

I mean no disrespect to DC, hes a good horseman, and certainly a very nice guy. The fact of the matter is he gets real quality stock and wins at a solid clip, however he does fail to get his horses to the elite level. With the horses he gets he should be a powerhouse.

Oh, and as for the Thorographs...... any publication that touts Student Council as being a good horse you have to wonder.

If these trianers cant tell when a horse is ready for a big effort maybe they should consider another line of work. No sheet, thorograph, or otherwise, should dictate a horse being ready. A trainer who has a clue should be able to tell when his horses are ready to run, or when they need a break.

[Travis Stone]

No matter how you slice it, or who trains the horse, passing a race on the trail is never good.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

If these trianers cant tell when a horse is ready for a big effort maybe they should consider another line of work. No sheet, thorograph, or otherwise, should dictate a horse being ready. A trainer who has a clue should be able to tell when his horses are ready to run, or when they need a break.

However the propaganda which is often shoved at owners (often by racing managers looking to prove their value on the payroll) says that because Frankel then Pletcher have been so sucessful because they use not only the numbers but the theory behind the numbers. Of course the fact they are sharp trainers who have great horses has no bearing on the outcome...must be the sheets

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I just don't get the reasoning. Athletes need conditioning and they definitely need to be put in situations where they face adversity.

What are they saving this inexperienced horse for? All I've seen and heard from this barn are excuses. They talked like he hated the off going yet his breeding definitely didn't show that he would have a disdain for it. He beat Unbridled Vicar and that horse has proven to be less than stellar. He got the perfect setup in the Southwest. And now they're skipping the Rebel and going for one more prep until the Derby?

This horse, to me, has serious soundness issues and I'm not buying what they're selling. I'll commend them on their publicity campaign, but I've seen too many of those throughout the years to fall for the hype.

I agree. And just look at how many KY Derbies Pletcher and Frankel have won using that "less is more" sheets mentality. We repeatedly see year in, year out, the horses with the tough, grueling preps are more battle tested at ready for the first Saturday in May.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Do they all shill for tg in interviews like Carroll did?

Hey, sheets are expensive

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. .

aka, someone else is calling the shots.