CRIST: Changes dilute Cup's appeal

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Linny

To me, having Rags race on Day 1 (in your scenario) is to make her "second fiddle." Sorry but the biggest race "the day before" doesn't stand equal to the Classic or anyhting on Saturday. The Personal Ensign is run on the Fri before the Travers, does anyone care?

I hate to break it to everyone but Rags to Riches is not a 'crossover fan' attraction (not crossdressing). Her 15 minutes are up until she does something notble again.

[Linny]

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Linny

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

but it's us racing freaks who the powers that be should be taking care of.

take what works, make it better. quality, not quantity.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but it's us racing freaks who the powers that be should be taking care of.

take what works, make it better. quality, not quantity.

Are you going to stop watching the Saturday races because they have some races on Friday? Do you know anyone that stopped watching the Saturday races because they added new races and a new day? Not asking if you watched the Friday races but did you stop watching the Saturday ones?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Are you going to stop watching the Saturday races because they have some races on Friday? Do you know anyone that stopped watching the Saturday races because they added new races and a new day? Not asking if you watched the Friday races but did you stop watching the Saturday ones?

i had them on, yes. but i would prefer that i could see them all that day. how would you like it if the first half of the super bowl was on a friday during working hours?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i had them on, yes. but i would prefer that i could see them all that day. how would you like it if the first half of the super bowl was on a friday during working hours?

Yes, I see how this analogy is the same.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i had them on, yes. but i would prefer that i could see them all that day. how would you like it if the first half of the super bowl was on a friday during working hours?

the NCAA has managed to string out what used to be one day's worth of games over 9 days. It could be worse

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GBBob

the NCAA has managed to string out what used to be one day's worth of games over 9 days. It could be worse

but it could be better.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GBBob

the NCAA has managed to string out what used to be one day's worth of games over 9 days. It could be worse

but by the same token, those games are usually played during prime time, aren't they? not 1-5 on a weekday afternoon...at least once you get down to the sweet 16, right?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Linny

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

especially if she runs on Friday during rush hour

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Linny

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

Very true.....but I would add that racing her on the " real " BC card would keep her in the headlines, so to speak.

The other problem, that I'm not sure has been mentioned so far, is that instead of the Saturday races being a complete " championship day ", they will be watered down to include the, perhaps fun, but irrelevent BC Turf Sprint, BC Juvenile Turf and BC Marathon. These races were conceived as, essentially, lead-ins to the big day, and now they are part of the main event at the exclusion of others.

As has been well stated here by Chuck, the BC is furthering a mistake that racetracks in general make, in a misguided attempt to attract a new audience that may or may not truly exist, they have spurned the needs and desires of their core and dedicated customers. We need to take care of these people a whole lot better before we should be worried about adding to their numbers.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

As has been well stated here by Chuck, the BC is furthering a mistake that racetracks in general make, in a misguided attempt to attract a new audience that may or may not truly exist, they have spurned the needs and desires of their core and dedicated customers. We need to take care of these people a whole lot better before we should be worried about adding to their numbers.

You can literally hear the conversation in the BCL meeting when, OR EVEN IF, the question came up...

"The existing fans? Are you kidding? They'll watch and bet whenever and wherever we put it and whatever we call it..."

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You can literally hear the conversation in the BCL meeting when, OR EVEN IF, the question came up...

"The existing fans? Are you kidding? They'll watch and bet whenever and wherever we put it and whatever we call it..."

But if they said that, they're correct.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by justindew

But if they said that, they're correct.

They'd be 100% correct. Look at Kentucky Oaks day. Sure, there are probably better ideas that they can come up with and hopefully, they will continue to be open to tinkering with it to find what is the absolute best situation. But these changes aren't going to have any negative impact on the fans that watch the races at all. None.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They'd be 100% correct. Look at Kentucky Oaks day. Sure, there are probably better ideas that they can come up with and hopefully, they will continue to be open to tinkering with it to find what is the absolute best situation. But these changes aren't going to have any negative impact on the fans that watch the races at all. None.

That's just so wrong that it's almost depressing.

There will be many people who don't see the Friday races that will be denied seeing the races decided Saturday that belong as part of the marquis event. Instead they will see inconsequential filler.

Some of us " fans " aren't enamoured with turf sprints....now we are forced to deal with one if we want to play Pick-4s on Saturday ( involving other true championship races ). I know this fan won't be playing.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hate to break it to everyone but Rags to Riches is not a 'crossover fan' attraction (not crossdressing). Her 15 minutes are up until she does something notble again.

They don't want to hear that. Don't let them know what the attendance figs were like for the Gazelle. They don't want to believe it. To them, she's the Messiah. Or something.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They don't want to hear that. Don't let them know what the attendance figs were like for the Gazelle. They don't want to believe it. To them, she's the Messiah. Or something.

them who?? the them who think that a good race makes a good horse?

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They don't want to hear that. Don't let them know what the attendance figs were like for the Gazelle. They don't want to believe it. To them, she's the Messiah. Or something.

I hope not but...........................
I don't think the Messiah, Rags to Riches will come again.
I think she is done.

More is sometimes less
and the new format is just greed

[Linny]

The newbie to casual to hardcore description is correct but remember, only a very few ever become hardcore. Drive away 2 or 3 of them and 1000 newbies doesn't make up for it.

I also am not sure how placing a bunch of (supposedly) important events on a weekday will draw NEW fans. Several people who post here (presumed hardcore fans/players) have said that they wouldn't bother with Friday. If that's the case, what the devil makes BC think that some receptionist from Pasadena with no connection to racing will skip work on Fri to go to the track???!!!

Places like Louisville, Lexington, Saratoga and DelMar have sufficient casual fans and locals who want to see and be seen at the big events to fill the stands. They have tradition and location in their favor. I grew up in Albany and Saratoga has been part of my conciouness ALL MY LIFE. I'm sure kids in Lexington feel the same about Keeneland. With the BC being (supposedly) a moving event, how does one establish the tradition? Places like I mentioned rely on local tradition, parents taking kids to the the races. Kids choosing to continue to attend, bringing their kids someday.

[citycat]

I am most disappointed with the renaming of the Distaff. I admit to being a big fan of Personal Ensign. I think most would agree that her race in the Distaff is one of the best moments in horse racing history. To have that race renamed as the Ladies Classic just doesnt seem right to me. As many have already posted I think they again miss the boat on the intelligence of the racing fan. Ladies Classic is geared more towards the person (not generally the racing fan). I guess the word Distaff was too difficult for the mass population.