Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > The Charles Hatton Reading Room
Reload this Page Top 25 3yo's 1987-2007
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:04 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
Jerome Park
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
You know how I feel about Java Gold. Lost Code is also on my list of the top 25 as are Alysheba and Bet Twice. So I'm with you when it comes to looking at their overall quality. But when it comes to sprinting, we are far apart. I can't see Java Gold coming within five lengths of Fog at 7f or within 10 lengths at 6f. On the Line was a very talented horse and that would have been a good matchup. But Afleet and Lost Code? In sprints? Lost Code was a very nice horse and he had nice front end speed but front-end route speed is vastly different than front-end sprint speed. See Commentator. All four of Lost Code's 3yo stakes wins came at 9f. Afleet wouldn't have been able to stay in the same pan shot with Fog in a sprint race.

Take a look at Java Gold's 3YO debut.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:11 PM
King Glorious's Avatar
King Glorious King Glorious is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beaumont, CA
Posts: 4,614
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Take a look at Java Gold's 3YO debut.
Saw that race and also the Cowdin, Saratoga Special, and the Best Turn. I'm not saying that he couldn't sprint but as much as I love him, I wouldn't place him in Fog's class as a sprinter.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020)
Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:13 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
Jerome Park
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
Saw that race and also the Cowdin, Saratoga Special, and the Best Turn. I'm not saying that he couldn't sprint but as much as I love him, I wouldn't place him in Fog's class as a sprinter.
What about Turkoman? What would you classify him as?

I know he was earlier.....but he would have drowned Lost in the Fog at 7F.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:16 PM
SniperSB23 SniperSB23 is offline
Hialeah Park
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 6,086
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
What about Turkoman? What would you classify him as?

I know he was earlier.....but he would have drowned Lost in the Fog at 7F.
LITF at 7 furlongs was not that good of a horse. His last three Beyers pre-BC at 6 furlong were 114/116/110. His last four at 7 furlongs pre-BC were 105/107/105/105.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:21 PM
NoLuvForPletch NoLuvForPletch is offline
Hollywood Park
  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 971
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
LITF at 7 furlongs was not that good of a horse. His last three Beyers pre-BC at 6 furlong were 114/116/110. His last four at 7 furlongs pre-BC were 105/107/105/105.
Ironic thread as LITF's half brother, by Speightstown, will be going through the ring very shortly. Hip #176.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:22 PM
philcski's Avatar
philcski philcski is offline
Goodwood
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 8,872
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch
Ironic thread as LITF's half brother, by Speightstown, will be going through the ring very shortly. Hip #176.
What did he work?
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:24 PM
NoLuvForPletch NoLuvForPletch is offline
Hollywood Park
  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 971
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
What did he work?
10.2
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:22 PM
Cannon Shell's Avatar
Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
Sha Tin
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,855
Default
A horse like Turkoman would be revered as a racing God now.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:29 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
Jerome Park
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
A horse like Turkoman would be revered as a racing God now.

No doubt. I loved him.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:23 PM
miraja2's Avatar
miraja2 miraja2 is offline
Arlington Park
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,157
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch
Ironic thread as LITF's half brother, by Speightstown, will be going through the ring very shortly. Hip #176.
Have they ever bred the mare to Lost Soldier again?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:29 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
Belmont Park
  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,091
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch
Ironic thread as LITF's half brother, by Speightstown, will be going through the ring very shortly. Hip #176.

I have no reason to believe Youngstown will be all that as a sire..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:17 PM
King Glorious's Avatar
King Glorious King Glorious is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beaumont, CA
Posts: 4,614
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
What about Turkoman? What would you classify him as?

I know he was earlier.....but he would have drowned Lost in the Fog at 7F.
We see things way different. But then, you know that.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020)
Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:20 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
Jerome Park
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
We see things way different. But then, you know that.

Seeing things differently is one thing.....are you aware of the two races Turkoman ran at 7F as a 4YO?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:26 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
Jerome Park
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
Default
Actually, I was wrong, he won his 4YO debut at 6F....in 108 1/5....closing from about 147 lengths out of it. By the way, he won the Widener in 1:58 3/5 three weeks later. For what it's worth, that was a new track record at Hialeah ( he was last with a half mile to go...and went his final half in 46 4/5 ).

He returned off a layoff to finish a close second to Groovy in the 7F Forego, the track was muddy and Groovy opened up 7 top of the stretch.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:47 PM
King Glorious's Avatar
King Glorious King Glorious is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beaumont, CA
Posts: 4,614
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Seeing things differently is one thing.....are you aware of the two races Turkoman ran at 7F as a 4YO?
I'm aware of the Forego. I never saw the other race. From the accounts of it that you just gave, it must have been a good race. But then, was it better than Fog going 1:13 2/5 as a 2yo (with a 1:07 1/5 fraction) at Turf Paradise? Was it better than Fog going 1:07 1/5 (with a 54 1/5 fraction) at Golden Gate? He also ran 1:08's at Gulfstream, Aqueduct, and Belmont to prove that he wasn't just a wonder on the asphalt tracks out West. His race at Calder was close to setting a track record and was faster than the older horses went in the Smile and the Princess Rooney, races which were won by graded stakes winning horses.

Cannon is right though. A horse like Turkoman would be looked at like a God today. Same with Precisionist, who was Ghostzapper before Ghostzapper.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020)
Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:50 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
Belmont Park
  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,091
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
I'm aware of the Forego. I never saw the other race. From the accounts of it that you just gave, it must have been a good race. But then, was it better than Fog going 1:13 2/5 as a 2yo (with a 1:07 1/5 fraction) at Turf Paradise? Was it better than Fog going 1:07 1/5 (with a 54 1/5 fraction) at Golden Gate? He also ran 1:08's at Gulfstream, Aqueduct, and Belmont to prove that he wasn't just a wonder on the asphalt tracks out West. His race at Calder was close to setting a track record and was faster than the older horses went in the Smile and the Princess Rooney, races which were won by graded stakes winning horses.

Cannon is right though. A horse like Turkoman would be looked at like a God today. Same with Precisionist, who was Ghostzapper before Ghostzapper.

Geez King next you are goingto be telling me how awesome Smokey Stover is because beat Northern Cal's finest
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-26-2008, 05:00 PM
Indian Charlie's Avatar
Indian Charlie Indian Charlie is offline
Goodwood
  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,708
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
What about Turkoman? What would you classify him as?

I know he was earlier.....but he would have drowned Lost in the Fog at 7F.
i wanted to bring him up as well, but as you said, earlier crop.

i wish someone would post that fla sprint of his on youtube, including the gallop out.

that was NUTS.
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Display Modes
Hybrid Mode Hybrid Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 AM.

Contact Us - Derby Trail Steve Byk Steve’s Notes DT Stables DT Shoppe Gallery Contact Links Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.