Clemens: BigFATLIar

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

1. Baseball's antitrust status which congress could easily take away if federal laws are being broken. They enjoy a special business privilege (possibly unfair), go back and look at these debates.

It is funny that this is mentioned but it really isnt that important anymore. First off Congress would have to overturn 3 seperate Supreme Court decisions all in favor of granting baseball an excemption because they have never felt that it violates the Sherman Act and does not deem baseball as interstate commerce as defined by the Sherman Act.

The truth is that anyone is free to start a baseball league to compete with MLB and as shown by the USFL vs NFL case the courts will not hold the leagues responsible if any such leagues are attempted and fail.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is funny that this is mentioned but it really isnt that important anymore. First off Congress would have to overturn 3 seperate Supreme Court decisions all in favor of granting baseball an excemption because they have never felt that it violates the Sherman Act and does not deem baseball as interstate commerce as defined by the Sherman Act.

The truth is that anyone is free to start a baseball league to compete with MLB and as shown by the USFL vs NFL case the courts will not hold the leagues responsible if any such leagues are attempted and fail.

congress doesn't overturn supreme court decisions. they just pass new laws.

you're correct that the exception for baseball exists because of a 1922 supreme court decision and not an act of congress. but the decision itself leaves it to congress to clarify the issue.

baseball might be free to explore actions against a competitor league that the nfl couldn't because it's exempt from the sherman act. so i'm not sure how the usfl example supports your point.

there have been occasional attempts in congress to address this. john conyers introduced the most recent bill.

there is no real reason that the nfl (or any other league) should be subject to the sherman act and not baseball.

you probably wouldn't see any new major league in the wake of the removal of the exemption. but you would eventually see a different minor league system not tied in directly with major league teams. the minor league system as it exists couldn't be legal absent the exemption.

that'll probably happen just after clemens admits he perjured himself.

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

congress doesn't overturn supreme court decisions. they just pass new laws.

you're correct that the exception for baseball exists because of a 1922 supreme court decision and not an act of congress. but the decision itself leaves it to congress to clarify the issue.

baseball might be free to explore actions against a competitor league that the nfl couldn't because it's exempt from the sherman act. so i'm not sure how the usfl example supports your point.

there have been occasional attempts in congress to address this. john conyers introduced the most recent bill.

there is no real reason that the nfl (or any other league) should be subject to the sherman act and not baseball.

you probably wouldn't see any new major league in the wake of the removal of the exemption. but you would eventually see a different minor league system not tied in directly with major league teams. the minor league system as it exists couldn't be legal absent the exemption.

that'll probably happen just after clemens admits he perjured himself.

I did not say it was likely,
it has been used as a threat
however. Baseball is so incredibly lucrative
that hell freezes over before there is any change.

The bolded above has been mentioned before
and more often now. If the public really cared
about the exemption...no way.
The players, owners themselves
would not ever try to threaten this as the money flows.

No Al Davis types.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

baseball might be free to explore actions against a competitor league that the nfl couldn't because it's exempt from the sherman act. so i'm not sure how the usfl example supports your point.

Clue me in to the competitor league that baseball is worried about? The USFL example fits my point because if the anti trust exemption was dropped a group may try to start a league with the sole purpose of eventually suing baseball for having a monopoly and either get awarded damages or get expansion teams that are now worth hundreds of millions adopted by MLB. That is what the USFL was and did.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

you probably wouldn't see any new major league in the wake of the removal of the exemption. but you would eventually see a different minor league system not tied in directly with major league teams. the minor league system as it exists couldn't be legal absent the exemption.

Then explain how the NHL and NBA can have minor leagues set up in a similar fashion without the antitrust exemption?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Then explain how the NHL and NBA can have minor leagues set up in a similar fashion without the antitrust exemption?

So they are exempt?

I thought baseball was unique in its exemption.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

So they are exempt?

I thought baseball was unique in its exemption.

Baseball is and God was saying that if they lost the excemption that the minor league systmem would be affected. However I dont think that is true and it seems that the other leagues minor leagues would be proof of that since those leagues dont have the exemption.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I hear, read, and listen to people who scream bloody murder that Congress should not involve itself --or, as frequently claimed, "waste time" and "don't they have better things to do" -- in investigating steroids in baseball, because, after all, it's a sport.

If you look at baseball as a multibillion dollar business as opposed to a sport, then maybe there is merit to an investigation.

This reminds me of occasions when some argue here that Thoroughbred racing is sport, yet others dismiss those arguments as naive, because, after all, Thoroughbred racing is a business.

What other business does congress investigate because of the habits of the businesses employees?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What other business does congress investigate because of the habits of the businesses employees?

The production, distribution and use of illegal drugs.

There are strict federal regulations about the production of HGH.
There were huge ethical issues presented before this drug was allowed to be produced in the US.
I remember it well.
The opponents of the production of HGH predicted exactly
what has come to pass; that it would be used for purposes other than genetic disorders for which it was first intended (pituitary dwarves).

[Cannon Shell]

That is a bunch of crap. First of all we are talking about individuals named in a private investigation santioned and paid for by private business. This was not based upon a government investigation and as such the questionable tactics of investigators in using possibile immunity in order to provide information for a private investigation is unusual to say the least. Secondly, there are only minor violations (if any, I still have never been shown that using HGH is a crime) by the alleged users of the drugs, not the suppliers. Though I am not a lawyer I would find it strange that a governing body would concern itself not with the suppliers of the drug but the users? Where was Congress during the late 80's when baseball players were being brought in front of a court in PA for cocaine use? I would have to say that if given the choice between HGH and cocaine, the latter would be a much more serious and dangerous drug. However Congress wasnt sticking its nose in then. This isnt about the suppliers, they got immunity to finger the users. That is like arresting the drug kingpin and giving him immunity to tell who was using. It seems odd to me. Peegarden, this is not about the production and distribution of HGH. That would make sense. The way this has played out does not.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Oh, I don't know, Congress regulates interstate commerce, and a bunch of people have violated federal drug laws?

Oh yeah and baseball as defined by the Supreme Court does not fall under the definition of interstate commerce