Some Saturday Beyer Figures

[Travis Stone]

Outside of Curlin, who does Grasshopper have to beat? If they can zig-and-zag all year, with the abundance of G1's out there, Grasshopper could have a great year.

[blackthroatedwind]

Because of the way the Risen Star was run any final time speed figure had to be relatively meaningless. There's just nothing you can do.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Outside of Curlin, who does Grasshopper have to beat? If they can zig-and-zag all year, with the abundance of G1's out there, Grasshopper could have a great year.

It feels like that now....in the second week of February. Maybe it will be true, and nothing against Grasshopper, who has a great name, but let's hope there are better horses than Magna Graduate lurking somewhere out there.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It feels like that now....in the second week of February. Maybe it will be true, and nothing against Grasshopper, who has a great name, but let's hope there are better horses than Magna Graduate lurking somewhere out there.

Yeah great name.. I should name my next Caradine

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It feels like that now....in the second week of February. Maybe it will be true, and nothing against Grasshopper, who has a great name, but let's hope there are better horses than Magna Graduate lurking somewhere out there.

Absolutely. Could you imagine the disaster it would be if Curlin never raced after Dubai? A horse like Magna Graduate or Awesome Gem would be top dawgs. Yikes.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Absolutely. Could you imagine the disaster it would be if Curlin never raced after Dubai? A horse like Magna Graduate or Awesome Gem would be top dawgs. Yikes.

don't know about disaster but i Don't think you will see Curlin run in the US this year.

Originally Posted by ddthetide

don't know about disaster but i Don't think you will see Curlin run in the US this year.

Well if he wins the DWC then the chances of him having a faux injury are extremely high.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It feels like that now....in the second week of February. Maybe it will be true, and nothing against Grasshopper, who has a great name, but let's hope there are better horses than Magna Graduate lurking somewhere out there.

I'm not sure if there are many or since I hate MG so much I'll say at least not many better than Silver Lord. He can probably move forward off this as the year goes on and should be able to push his figures up to where he was for the Travers. Unfortunately for the state of the older male division, anything over 105 this year is going to be a major threat to win a G1. Curlin, Spring at Last, and Daaher are off to Dubai. Gotta figure at least one and likely two don't make it through the rest of the year. Not many others out there capable of going 105+.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'm not sure if there are many or since I hate MG so much I'll say at least not many better than Silver Lord. He can probably move forward off this as the year goes on and should be able to push his figures up to where he was for the Travers. Unfortunately for the state of the older male division, anything over 105 this year is going to be a major threat to win a G1. Curlin, Spring at Last, and Daaher are off to Dubai. Gotta figure at least one and likely two don't make it through the rest of the year. Not many others out there capable of going 105+.

You, BTW, and Travis are saying sort of what I was saying about the division this year and why I felt that there might be worse decisions than putting a horse like Nobiz back on the dirt. He's already won a grade one on it and he's come close to the 105 mark which, if he repeated that, would make him competitive in quite a few races and with the number of big money and grade one options out there, I'd feel very confident in his chances of winning one or two.

[blackthroatedwind]

Actually, while it's hard to be overly optimistic, I'm not quite ready to condemn the entire older division this early. I'm not exactly sure what's out there, though I have a feeling first time dirter Frost Giant will get a huge number for Monday's 6th at Gulfstream, but it's still too early to know for sure.

That's not a bad point actually about Nobiz and I wonder if one thing that Tagg is thinking about is how does Showing Up come back. If he's miraculously back to his former self, I wonder if that would affect Nobiz's schedule. I also suppose Curlin could have something to do with that. However, considering Nobiz's affinity for both surfaces I also wonder if he would consider polytrack Grade 1s in California....especially with the BC Classic obviously being out there. I doubt he will want to move him back and forth between grass and dirt but I wouldn't be shocked if he was contemplating a return to dirt.

Sounds like we should ask someone to ask Tagg. Knowing his affinity for the press I'm sure he would be delighted to be forthcoming.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Pyro's effort was somewhere in between the 2 extremes mentioned(visually great,and beyer figure/time mediocre.)He won a grade 3 very easily.My guess is he will do well.I think one or 2 will probably do a little better.I think a couple others will like the Derby distance a little more.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Pyro's effort was somewhere in between the 2 extremes mentioned(visually great,and beyer figure/time mediocre.)He won a grade 3 very easily.My guess is he will do well.I think one or 2 will probably do a little better.I think a couple others will like the Derby distance a little more.

i agree on all counts. i know some are waiting to see if war pass was just a precocious two year old, but maybe pyro already answered that question....beating a suspect field is one thing, making the derby field and doing well is quite another. pyro may have more questions now than previous to the risen star.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually, while it's hard to be overly optimistic, I'm not quite ready to condemn the entire older division this early. I'm not exactly sure what's out there, though I have a feeling first time dirter Frost Giant will get a huge number for Monday's 6th at Gulfstream, but it's still too early to know for sure.

That's not a bad point actually about Nobiz and I wonder if one thing that Tagg is thinking about is how does Showing Up come back. If he's miraculously back to his former self, I wonder if that would affect Nobiz's schedule. I also suppose Curlin could have something to do with that. However, considering Nobiz's affinity for both surfaces I also wonder if he would consider polytrack Grade 1s in California....especially with the BC Classic obviously being out there. I doubt he will want to move him back and forth between grass and dirt but I wouldn't be shocked if he was contemplating a return to dirt.

Sounds like we should ask someone to ask Tagg. Knowing his affinity for the press I'm sure he would be delighted to be forthcoming.

seems the last few years we've all had the older horse doldrums at this time of year, yet usually one or two suddenly show on the radar and we end up having an enjoyable season. too soon to say just yet who the top dogs will be in the now misnamed handicap division, but the fun is always in the discovery.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

seems the last few years we've all had the older horse doldrums at this time of year, yet usually one or two suddenly show on the radar and we end up having an enjoyable season. too soon to say just yet who the top dogs will be in the now misnamed handicap division, but the fun is always in the discovery.

The question that you have to ask is whether or not that one or two that seem to suddenly show up do so because they are just the best of the ones that are left and somebody has to win or do they actually step up their game and take it to the next level? For example, if you take out Street Sense, Curlin, and Hard Spun and Imawildandcrazyguy ends up as the Derby winner, is it accurate to say he stepped up or is it accurate to say he was just the best of what was left? This year, because of the lack of good older horses and with the best older horse set to miss at least the first half of the year over here, several horses that probably should be considered second level at best, are going to win some pretty prestigious races and be overhyped because of it.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually, while it's hard to be overly optimistic, I'm not quite ready to condemn the entire older division this early. I'm not exactly sure what's out there, though I have a feeling first time dirter Frost Giant will get a huge number for Monday's 6th at Gulfstream, but it's still too early to know for sure.

That's not a bad point actually about Nobiz and I wonder if one thing that Tagg is thinking about is how does Showing Up come back. If he's miraculously back to his former self, I wonder if that would affect Nobiz's schedule. I also suppose Curlin could have something to do with that. However, considering Nobiz's affinity for both surfaces I also wonder if he would consider polytrack Grade 1s in California....especially with the BC Classic obviously being out there. I doubt he will want to move him back and forth between grass and dirt but I wouldn't be shocked if he was contemplating a return to dirt.

Sounds like we should ask someone to ask Tagg. Knowing his affinity for the press I'm sure he would be delighted to be forthcoming.

Agreed on Nobiz and Showing Up. With three surfaces being available there is really no reason to ever run them for less than $500,000 this year.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Agreed on Nobiz and Showing Up. With three surfaces being available there is really no reason to ever run them for less than $500,000 this year.

Yeah that purse money is real motiavation for the Jackson's and Valando..