What Will Be Obvious After Tonite

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Most of them had/have medicaid.

Not people working paycheck to paycheck(and using every penny for bills.)The kinds of people Danzig and Romney think are partying away drinking 40 ounce malt liquor instead of buying healthcare.Fact is they probably needed every bit to pay their bills.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

A lot of you consider yourself Christians (even if you don't attend church regularly.)I just want to say that Christ said it's pretty important how you treat the least among you.The least wasteful way to do that is National Healthcare.Nobody is gunna buy crack with it.Nobody is gunna be acting lazy while doing it(they have to get up and go to the doctor.)Nobody is gunna want to use it.They will use it when they have to.It's a lot better than giving checks out to be used in any way they want.There are only 2 reasons to be against it:

1)selfishnous

2)dislike of the poor

Like I said,it's a predominantly Christian country,.So,it would appear people simply ignore their own religion.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

A lot of you consider yourself Christians (even if you don't attend church regularly.)I just want to say that Christ said it's pretty important how you treat the least among you.The least wasteful way to do that is National Healthcare.Nobody is gunna buy crack with it.Nobody is gunna be acting lazy while doing it(they have to get up and go to the doctor.)Nobody is gunna want to use it.They will use it when they have to.It's a lot better than giving checks out to be used in any way they want.There are only 2 reasons to be against it:

1)selfishnous

2)dislike of the poor

Like I said,it's a predominantly Christian country,.So,it would appear people simply ignore their own religion.

i think you've gone on a tangent with this post. and this type of argument reminds me of the typical 'if you don't like ___, then leave the country'...or when a program looks like it won't pass, so people are accused of not wanting to help the children. or when bush said if you're not for it, you're against it. but then you also argue that if someone questions polytrack, they don't care about a horses safety, so at least you're consistent.

like i said, posts ago, no doubt improvements could be made. i just don't think a national healthcare system as proposed by hillary would be a solution. i would rather see a solution to the problem, then a program along the lines of social security.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think you've gone on a tangent with this post. and this type of argument reminds me of the typical 'if you don't like ___, then leave the country'...or when a program looks like it won't pass, so people are accused of not wanting to help the children. or when bush said if you're not for it, you're against it. but then you also argue that if someone questions polytrack, they don't care about a horses safety, so at least you're consistent.

like i said, posts ago, no doubt improvements could be made. i just don't think a national healthcare system as proposed by hillary would be a solution. i would rather see a solution to the problem, then a program along the lines of social security.

Well,I don't even know if it implies to you(Christianity.) I do think people who are against universal healthcare are against it due to the 2 reasons I mentioned(don't like the poor,or are simply selfish.)Christ warned against both.The reason I bring it up is because this religion is constantly brought up during an election year.I just think people accent only the parts of the religion they like.I think people against universal healthcare are on the exact opposite side Christ would take(based on pretty much everything he said.)Really though......o.k.,look,we are paying twice as much per person(compared to other industrialized nations) for our care.Do you really think we are getting our moneysworth here?If it's not all mainly due to lawsuits,and defensive medicine,or waiting lists (in other countries)then we have a huge problem here.There is no way this hi cost of care can continue.Regardless of whether we have universal care or not,we have to start spending what other countries do per person(half what we spend.) It's not a choice.Baby boomers are gunna start retiring.The price of medical care will have to be controlled.There simply won't be enough people paying payroll taxes to keep up with the medical costs of the country.It doesn't add up.They aren't gunna raise taxes on the wealthy.So,what are they gunna do?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well,I don't even know if it implies to you(Christianity.) I do think people who are against universal healthcare are against it due to the 2 reasons I mentioned(don't like the poor,or are simply selfish.)Christ warned against both.The reason I bring it up is because this religion is constantly brought up during an election year.I just think people accent only the parts of the religion they like.I think people against universal healthcare are on the exact opposite side Christ would take(based on pretty much everything he said.)Really though......o.k.,look,we are paying twice as much per person(compared to other industrialized nations) for our care.Do you really think we are getting our moneysworth here?If it's not all mainly due to lawsuits,and defensive medicine,or waiting lists (in other countries)then we have a huge problem here.There is no way this hi cost of care can continue.Regardless of whether we have universal care or not,we have to start spending what other countries do per person(half what we spend.) It's not a choice.Baby boomers are gunna start retiring.The price of medical care will have to be controlled.There simply won't be enough people paying payroll taxes to keep up with the medical costs of the country.It doesn't add up.They aren't gunna raise taxes on the wealthy.So,what are they gunna do?

People bitch about the teachers' union. The most destructive union in the world is the AMA. They have successfully blocked every and all attempt not just at universal care but any kind of reform. The bigger problem is HC reform .... how care is delievered and what happens to that point.

The AMA limits med school entrants, then encourages people to quit during residency. Choke down the supply of doctors, and ensure that their costs remain high. They limit the number of jobs (even routine work) that can be done by non-doctors.

Most important, the AMA insists on self-policing, and has a code of silence, even for incompetents.

Guaranteed jobs for doctors, and screw the public good.

A book I have, written by a guy named Coddington called The Crisis in Health Care: Costs, Choices, and Strategies, predicted these outcomes under our market-based system:

More than 40 million uninsured
Continued gaps in safety net coverage
Double-digit health plan rate increases
Smaller employers cutting coverage or even dropping health plans
Increased co-payments and deductibles for employees
Large rate increases for private insurers in shrinking markets
Numerous failures of HMOs and withdrawal from the market by larger insurance companies
Continued cost shifting in an increasingly fragmented market
Continued inflation of health care costs

This book was written in the late 70's.

There is only one way to move toward universal HC and that is to open Medicaid/Medicare to buy-ins. But the stakeholders, especially the AMA are not going to let this happen until their last ounce of blood gets spilled. They have too much at stake. Why would they give it up willingly? Of course they won't.

The insurance companies are not the true bad guy here. The AMA is.

You won't see univ HC until these two things happen:
1. The US public becomes far less tolerant of the uninsured issue than it is now.
2. You bust the AMA.

F'k all the doctors and med students who moan about working 60 hour weeks to support their family and because their job demands it. Bullshit. Lots of people work big hours. You do what you need to do to be successful.

And double F'k the ones who cry about their student loans.

good luck.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I think the whole thing about a shortage of doctors is total bullshit.If you get the AMA to stop artificially limiting the number of doctors,then there would never be a shortage.They've worked so hard to make it a glamour job that it would take generations before people stopped wanting to be doctors.Look at these other European Countries(with national care.)They have the same (or more) # of doctors/1000 people.She is full of ****,and lies.Other than in the E.R.,and Surgery,we don't need all these doctors.You probably get touched more in a 1 night stand than you do by all the doctors you've ever seen in examining rooms.Give nurses specialized training,and let these greedy people go into designing video games.Start with these Psychiatrists that are bolted to these chairs behind the desk.Any nurse (with a Psychiatrist in charge of them) could do what these "doctors" do.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I'm sorry, but I don't want anyone with less than a 3.45 GPA in their undergraduate program even being given the opportunity to go to any kind of med school, OD school, PharmD school, Dentistry school...etc. Doctors already screw up enough as it is...

UNC Chapel Hill statistics

Average entering medical school GPA: 3.65
Average entering PharD school GPA: 3.5

I don't think that is too outrageous. If it was really that competitive, shouldn't the GPAs be higher? Our medical school is #2 in the nation for primary care. #23 in the nation for research. Our pharmacy school is number 4 in the nation.

I am not full of ****. I studied Medical Geography intensively last semester with one of the best professors in the country. She was the first ever to receive a doctorate in that field, and has also taught at UCLA. I learned the demographics of disease throughout the world, and the United States has far more degenerative health problems and psychiatric health problems than the other countries that you mentioned. As a scientist, I ask why? What is the significance of the statistics, and what are the reasons behind the statistics. Statistics are often biased and meaningless, just as maps are... The numbers aren't that important unless you also look at the reasons why, and do your own research. I'll give you an example of the shortage of doctors. There is a big shortage of ODs and ophthamologists right now. In GA, there is 1 OD per 10,000 patients. There just aren't a lot of people that go into those fields. It has nothing to do with the AMA limiting applicants to go into optometry or ophthamology.

And I think that you have a psychiatrist mixed up with a psychologist. Psychiastrists prescribe medications, interpret electroencephalograms...etc.(let's see a nurse do those things). Psychologists are your counseling doctors. Psychiatrists are the ones that take care of people in mental institutions, and those that have diseases like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder...etc. They are very much needed in our society.

Nurse anesthetists make over 200,000 dollars a year. PA's make 100,000+ dollars a year. They went to school longer, so they are compensated for their work. MDs go to school for 12+ years, so they should be compensated for the extra training. If a nurse goes to school for more than 4 years, they should be compensated for the extra training. Anyone that has eight years of official training is considered a doctor. In no way should a nurse ever be able to prescribe medications because they would have to go to school for that long to be able to do it, which=doctor.

Also, colleges are not equipped to handle but a certain number of entering medical school students. Even huge medical colleges like Duke and Chapel Hill have to limit the number of applicants because there isn't enough equipment, enough space, or enough other doctors to take the time out of their work days to teach more students. These doctors need to be seeing patients with the shortages. Plus, who in their right mind wouldn't want to limit the applicants to the exceptional individuals? I don't want some dumb ass working on me or doing my surgeriesIt is an intensive program. Very intensive, and it should be.

Otherwise, who cares about all the people's lives that they would **** up by prescribing wrong medications and making wrong diagnoses right? (being sarcastic)

I asked my mom if doctors should make every bit of money that they make (I asked her because she works with them 5 days a week), and she said absolutely. They put in the time, they dedicated their lives, they went to college for that long, many of them work 80+ hours a week, and they should make the kind of money that they do. So, I don't think that it is right for anyone who doesn't know about the profession to be bad mouthing doctors just because they make more than the average person, and because they are against universal health care since it would make their jobs a lot more difficult for less pay.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Not people working paycheck to paycheck(and using every penny for bills.)The kinds of people Danzig and Romney think are partying away drinking 40 ounce malt liquor instead of buying healthcare.Fact is they probably needed every bit to pay their bills.

tony and i were like that for years. we struggled for a long time after we got married. money was tight, paycheck to paycheck just like you wrote. but we had insurance. it was never given a second thought, and never considered as anything other than an absolute necessity.
you hear a lot of talk about those withou coverage--but how many of the people without coverage truly have no alternative? how many without private insurance are covered thru the medical plans already in place?

[Mortimer]

^^^MILT site shut down.