Mel Gibson's Anti-Semetic Tirade

somerfrost · #1 07-29-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And see, I see the "Burning Times" as witches' attempts to give themselves their own Holocaust. Most of the victims of the assorted Witch Trials weren't "witches" in any relgious sense of the word; they were Christians who were unfortunate enough to be A)women with property B)women or men who annoyed someone in power C)irritating neighbors or D)any or all of the above. The numbers of those who died have been grossly inflated, and again, most of them weren't practicing witchcraft as a religion- they were using folk remedies, etc. independent of a faith. Heck, my great-aunt knew more folk magic than anyone I knew and she was a devout Christian. Didn't stop her from telling you to rub a potato on a wart on Good Friday and then bury it and as the potato rotted so would the wart (my dad STILL yammers about how that cured his wart). But I grew up in Central PA where folk magic is rife and is mostly practiced by Christians.

I'm not disputing people were burned or hanged or pressed to death as witches, but I don't think a single one of the witches practicing today is practicing anything like what was practiced in pre-Christian times or Dark Ages times. Modern witchcraft seems to me to be a blend of Christianity, Eastern thought, spiritualism and New Age thinking, with a focus on the feminine in Divinity. Which is what attracted me-- I want God to have my face, too, not just my father's and brother's and husband's.

But to each his and her own-- I figure the roots of any religion are not nearly as important as what one does with one's faith in the here and now anyway.

Which is not to say I didn't go through my phase of "It's an ancient faith" and "Burning times! Never again!" But, perhaps unfortunately, I kept reading and researching and eventually came to the belief that "witches" in history and "witches" in religion are two very different things and that's fine. The research also gave me the knowledge that Christmas trees are in fact ancient pagan symbols (and cultural ones), and that most Christian holidays are based around ancient pagan holidays (and many churches built on old pagan sites). Which is why the annual stuff in the media about a "war on Christmas" always amuses me.

AND-- all that said, I'm always astonished and a bit humbled when I come across a man who looks into the Craft, as it were. The great Western Faiths very clearly state man is primary and woman secondary, and for a man to look at a faith that says they're both equal (though different) is a man willing to give up some status. And that's an extraordinary thing, Somer, and I tip my hat to you-- I find it a very admirable thing.

Well, regarding the Burning Times, I will agree that most of the innocent victims of what amounted to church sponsored genocide were not practicing witches rather simply folks against whom someone held a grudge. Having said that, I would still contend that the purpose behind the Inquisition and other such activities was to wipe out witchcraft and other pagan religions. King James' translation of the old Hebrew word "chasaph" to the English "witch" rather than the correct translation of "poisoner", the sudden appearance of horns on the Judeo-Christian image of Satan which made it possible to claim that witches worshiped the devil....many examples.
The concept of sexual equality meets a lot of resistance in many cultures...I've never understood the fear attached to accepting the obvious. Unfortunately, in today's world, the concept of a female deity co-existing equally with a male one seems to be a huge step for many, perhaps one day......

#2 07-29-2006, 11:55 PM

I guess the big black pot jokes are out also.

I find it interesting that religions today still look at higher being(s) as having a sex. I mean there are some protozoans that have 13 sexes with very strict rules about sexual reproduction, quite confusing. And with as many organisms that reproduce asexually... I guess I thought stuff would be beyond that.

My bad. Using other living things in some sort of unity with humans is not a popular idea. Why cant people fit this in somehow. See this is what gets the atheists going... Man created God in his own image stuff.

somerfrost · #3 07-30-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

I guess the big black pot jokes are out also.

I find it interesting that religions today still look at higher being(s) as having a sex. I mean there are some protozoans that have 13 sexes with very strict rules about sexual reproduction, quite confusing. And with as many organisms that reproduce asexually... I guess I thought stuff would be beyond that.

My bad. Using other living things in some sort of unity with humans is not a popular idea. Why cant people fit this in somehow. See this is what gets the atheists going... Man created God in his own image stuff.

Again, many of the world's religions don't view the supreme being as either male or female! In Wicca, the supreme being is usually referred to as "The One"...mankind can't comprehend anything about this being, so...neither male or female and no claim that we are "in his/her/it's image". Very (probably overly) simply stated, the One IS the universe(s)...the One created the universe(s) and it/they are a part of the One. For us to better comprehend, it is taught that certain elements of the One (elements that we would characterize as male and female) are worshiped...they are usually referred to as the Lord and the Lady or the God and the Goddess. They are part of the One...much like the Christian "holy trinity". In addition, many Wiccans/Witches pray to additional gods and goddesses (many associated with ancient Egyptian and Greek Deities) HOWEVER they are all believed to be part of the ONE. Because certain feminine characteristics are so highly revered, many covens and individual Wiccans/Witches favor the Goddess however there are also many who pray equally to both and some who favor the God. It is recognized that this "breakdown" is done to accommodate the human limits of comprehension...in Wicca, there is one supreme being and that being is the same supreme being worshipped by all the world's religions that recognize one supreme being...they just use different names and have created different mythologies.

#4 07-30-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Again, many of the world's religions don't view the supreme being as either male or female! In Wicca, the supreme being is usually referred to as "The One"...mankind can't comprehend anything about this being, so...neither male or female and no claim that we are "in his/her/it's image". Very (probably overly) simply stated, the One IS the universe(s)...the One created the universe(s) and it/they are a part of the One. For us to better comprehend, it is taught that certain elements of the One (elements that we would characterize as male and female) are worshiped...they are usually referred to as the Lord and the Lady or the God and the Goddess. They are part of the One...much like the Christian "holy trinity". In addition, many Wiccans/Witches pray to additional gods and goddesses (many associated with ancient Egyptian and Greek Deities) HOWEVER they are all believed to be part of the ONE. Because certain feminine characteristics are so highly revered, many covens and individual Wiccans/Witches favor the Goddess however there are also many who pray equally to both and some who favor the God. It is recognized that this "breakdown" is done to accommodate the human limits of comprehension...in Wicca, there is one supreme being and that being is the same supreme being worshipped by all the world's religions that recognize one supreme being...they just use different names and have created different mythologies.

My bad for the plural on religion(s). For Christians on the whole:
Jesus is the Lord. Jesus was male. God's son. God is clearly implied to be male.

One and supreme are very in. Are there any large religions today in which the one is not "all that"? Many religions of the past had multiple God's and had no problem with that. I guess since we "know" more, one and supreme are definitely vogue. Just curious. Times change, religions try not to.

GenuineRisk · #5 07-30-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Again, many of the world's religions don't view the supreme being as either male or female! In Wicca, the supreme being is usually referred to as "The One"...mankind can't comprehend anything about this being, so...neither male or female and no claim that we are "in his/her/it's image". Very (probably overly) simply stated, the One IS the universe(s)...the One created the universe(s) and it/they are a part of the One. For us to better comprehend, it is taught that certain elements of the One (elements that we would characterize as male and female) are worshiped...they are usually referred to as the Lord and the Lady or the God and the Goddess. They are part of the One...much like the Christian "holy trinity". In addition, many Wiccans/Witches pray to additional gods and goddesses (many associated with ancient Egyptian and Greek Deities) HOWEVER they are all believed to be part of the ONE. Because certain feminine characteristics are so highly revered, many covens and individual Wiccans/Witches favor the Goddess however there are also many who pray equally to both and some who favor the God. It is recognized that this "breakdown" is done to accommodate the human limits of comprehension...in Wicca, there is one supreme being and that being is the same supreme being worshipped by all the world's religions that recognize one supreme being...they just use different names and have created different mythologies.

That is pretty much right on the money regarding the generally accepted view of Divinity in Wicca. You're a amart guy, Somer, but you know that already.

And yes, pgardn, you're correct in Christianity viewing God as male, and in Islam and Judaism for that matter-- remember, the three Western faiths all worship the EXACT SAME God, which is one reason I find it so fascinating that they fight each other all the time. But a lot of Americans have trouble wrapping their minds around that-- I have a dear friend in Florida, who, in the wake of 9/11 was flipping out at the prospect of Moslems invading and forcing her to pray to Allah, who she didn't believe in. I tried explaining to her that Allah is exactly the same entity as the Christian God-- that the main difference between Jews, Christians and Moslems is over who the prophet/messiah was, but she wouldn't buy it. Sigh.

Danzig · #6 07-30-2006, 10:41 AM

she sounds like my monster in law. i told her how holy days on the christian calendar ended up where they did, i thought she was going to have a heart attack. and then the whipped topping on the dessert--when i told her that easter is named for a goddess of springtime...i believe it's spelled oestre. but i could have that wrong.

GenuineRisk · #7 07-30-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

I guess the big black pot jokes are out also.

I find it interesting that religions today still look at higher being(s) as having a sex. I mean there are some protozoans that have 13 sexes with very strict rules about sexual reproduction, quite confusing. And with as many organisms that reproduce asexually... I guess I thought stuff would be beyond that.

My bad. Using other living things in some sort of unity with humans is not a popular idea. Why cant people fit this in somehow. See this is what gets the atheists going... Man created God in his own image stuff.

Are you kidding me? One of my favorite bumper stickers I've seen on a practicing Witch's car said, "Don't make me get my flying monkeys!" Hee hee hee hee. No, that stuff totally cracks me up. I do try very hard not to take religion, mine or anyone else's, too seriously because really, who knows?

Cajungator26 · #8 08-01-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Are you kidding me? One of my favorite bumper stickers I've seen on a practicing Witch's car said, "Don't make me get my flying monkeys!" Hee hee hee hee. No, that stuff totally cracks me up. I do try very hard not to take religion, mine or anyone else's, too seriously because really, who knows?

I understand your logic on this, but I tend to take it MORE seriously because really, who knows? What happens if I slack off and then the world ends... then it's too late.

I follow Christianity for my own reasons, but mainly because I've seen things that have made me believe the way I do. (I won't go into details because I don't want to freak people out. LOL)