NBA At the Half

[horseofcourse]

Mr Mortimer...let me explain something to you. An NBA team consists of 12 people...not 4. When I call the Cavs supporting cast average...I am including the 11 other players outside of LeBron...not just Varejao, Z and gooden. those 3 guys have plenty of weaknesses on their own. They are outstanding rebounders of the ball which is why I rank them pretty highly. I do not think much of the other 8 members on the "supporting" cast. I think Gibson is an interesting player who is pretty good but is not a point guard.

So when say I think 4 of the 11 other players are good or above average does not mean the entire cast is very good. I don't think the rest of the team is anything special nor do I think Varejao, Z or Gooden are anything special...just very good rebounders which is important to have on a team.

Thus I have come to the conclusion that the Cavs supporting cast is simply average at best overall. I dont' think they're hideous. They get wins because every single game they play they have the best player on the floor (except when he's hurt of course!).

(and please checking my work on the strikeouts!!! you really need to check nothing that I ever say!! I simply know and facts really do exist, they're really not that hard to find in the internet age are they now??? If I list a fact, really no need to check at all...have at my opinions all you want though....perhaps those may be wrong...but for the most part...not!!)

[Mortimer]

HA!!

Most teams could throw away players 9-12 and no one would notice.

This gem is so you:

I don't think the rest of the team is anything special nor do I think Varejao, Z or Gooden are anything special...just very good rebounders which is important to have on a team.

Unbelievable!


You say James makes them better.....true. ...but do you know in his first year everyone said ( as always with players like this)......we need to build a better team around him...to make him and the team better.




Al I said was stop making it sound like James is the only weapon the poor lowly Cavs have.A player like him will make any team better.....but he needs better players than a .300 team has to make them go somewhere.







Michael Jordan.



Does that help any?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

HA!!

You say James makes them better.....true. ...but do you know in his first year everyone said ( as always with players like this)......we need to build a better team around him...to make him and the team better.

Al I said was stop making it sound like James is the only weapon the poor lowly Cavs have.A player like him will make any team better.....but he needs better players than a .300 team has to make them go somewhere.

Michael Jordan.



Does that help any?

They have some better players than his first year I guess?? They have Hughes?? They had Z back then as well so he hasn't changed...other than being older. They have Gibson and Pavlovic and Varejao.

They have some better players than back then...but simply nothing extraordinary. How does Michael Jordan help?? They have no one like whom Jordan had...(Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman) no one on this current team is close to those players skill wise.

This team is the Miami Heat without James...they are a high lottery team. I'm sorry, but Varejao is not Rodman, Hughes is not Pippen, and Sasha is not Kukoc, nor even remotely close. All I'll say is James is much, much closer to Jordan than those guys are to those guys.

[horseofcourse]

one more illustration pga...in the last two games of the finals yes, LeBron did not get easy shots...his 19 for 53 those two games were not good shooting efforts...but they were better shooting efforts than the shooting those two games of ginobili who went 8 for 26 those games and Tim Duncan who went 10 for 32 those two games. But as I said, they had a 3rd star who shot it 17 for 31 those games. If it is so darn easy to get easy shots how is it that duncan and Ginobili are shooting under 33 percent in two straight games in the NBA finals when great players like that can get easy shots so easily??

And therein lies the difference in the two teams...LeBron HAS to play well for them to win. ginobili and Duncan were able to get bailed out of their horrendous shooting performances by Parker and their abysmal shooting efforts are footnotes and ignored. When LeBron shoots like that is it ignored?? OF course not...all eyes focus toward his whatever problems he has. Of course ignore the 18 assists he dealt out those two games and everything else he attempted to do.

IN the words of Belichick...It is what it is.

[Mortimer]

I think you mentioned ALL of his game winning shots.





He didn't have but ONE until I believe it was last year.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I think you mentioned ALL of his game winning shots.





He didn't have but ONE until I believe it was last year.

He had at least 4 in 2006...game winning long distance jump shots against New Orleans and Charlotte in the regular season and the two game winners in the playoffs against Washington in games 3 and 5. Who can also forget the brilliant last second pass to Varejao against Milwaukee last year for the two point win?? Most likely everyone does forget that one.

(as I said mortimer...you can pretty much find any fact you want to on the internets!!)

[horseofcourse]

Have you grown weary of once again being taken to the shed by Main Course?? The prey has once again taken out the predator.

[Mortimer]

I give up with you already.


You will forever be with the image on the building worshipping pack who believes this player is the sole and only reason Cleveland ever wins a game.

The team could be made into a perenial NBA title game appearance type if they had the guts to trade James in a 2,3 or even 4 way trade. They can't do anything now to get a star point guard because it would take away from the big man strength creating another hole.

James is the way out....they won't get better than they are now and James won't either with his "Chosen One" mindset.

You don't need a "chosen one" to win it all.....just look at Detroit.






The supporting cast needs to get better by being without James and adding other supporters.


Not many can undertsand that......certainly not you.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I give up with you already.


You will forever be with the image on the building worshipping pack who believes this player is the sole and only reason Cleveland ever wins a game.

The team could be made into a perenial NBA title game appearance type if they had the guts to trade James in a 2,3 or even 4 way trade. They can't do anything now to get a star point guard because it would take away from the big man strength creating another hole.

James is the way out....they won't get better than they are now and James won't either with his "Chosen One" mindset.

You don't need a "chosen one" to win it all.....just look at Detroit.






The supporting cast needs to get better by being without James and adding other supporters.


Not many can undertsand that......certainly not you.

NO I can't understand that...in the late 80s...early 90s they (the Cavs) had prototypical players at center, power forward, point guard and played great team ball and never ever got to the finals (with a great 6th man in Hot Rod as well)...because they always ran into the team that had the best player in the game. Sort of similar to what happened to Detroit last year If I am remembering that correctly.

You are certainly not capable of understanding that fact. For once the best player who wears number 23 walks onto the floor in a cleveland uniform. Detroit still has more better players than Cleveland...wasn't enough last year and was darn near not enough in 2006. The Cavs certainly had more better player than Chicago in the late 80s and early 90s...they didn't have number 23 wearing a Chicago uniform now did they?? And because of that, it wasn't enough.

So I believe you are crazy for what you just stated in this post...pure and completely insane...no you don't need a chosen one to win a title...it sure as heck helps however.

I for one prefer to keep James as long as he will stay and try to build around him. They've come a long way...just not quite far enough yet. They still need a bit more help.


mortimer back to the wood shed once again by main course.

[Mortimer]

I said you don't need a superstar to win it wll...and pointed out an example. You point out a counter example....and then agree with me!!?

Your posts are full of contradictions,missnomers,inaccuracies as well as patty-cake- bakers- man nonsense.

James has an overall strong supporting cast...when healthy...it's not a great one. It has a point guard hole.....but it's better than over half the teams in the NBA at the very least.

You keep wanting to ramble. All I said was you give James too much credit and act like he's playing with the Miami gang.Tell me the weak teams you could put him on that would have gone to the finals last year...since you think the Cavs are so lousy other than James.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

one more illustration pga...in the last two games of the finals yes, LeBron did not get easy shots...his 19 for 53 those two games were not good shooting efforts...but they were better shooting efforts than the shooting those two games of ginobili who went 8 for 26 those games and Tim Duncan who went 10 for 32 those two games. But as I said, they had a 3rd star who shot it 17 for 31 those games. If it is so darn easy to get easy shots how is it that duncan and Ginobili are shooting under 33 percent in two straight games in the NBA finals when great players like that can get easy shots so easily??

And therein lies the difference in the two teams...LeBron HAS to play well for them to win. ginobili and Duncan were able to get bailed out of their horrendous shooting performances by Parker and their abysmal shooting efforts are footnotes and ignored. When LeBron shoots like that is it ignored?? OF course not...all eyes focus toward his whatever problems he has. Of course ignore the 18 assists he dealt out those two games and everything else he attempted to do.

IN the words of Belichick...It is what it is.

Damn it.
Its not the overall shooting %
In close def. battles like the Spurs and Cavs
its the last minutes of each quarter, especially the 4th.
Oberto absolutely destroyed the Cavs in the last few
minutes with layups in many of those games because Duncan
always draws doubles and such. Ginobili stretches
the D, Duncan draws the D in. Leaving gaps.

Do you think Oberto will help the Cavs?

Where did the easy shots come from on the Cavs?
Gooden cant do what Oberto did? Big I cant do that?
Lebron dribbles around out front and then just charges the
basket. His sense of spacing is just not there yet. Actually
his sense of spacing is quite bad but he can get away with
it because he is so good. He needs time to learn.
And he badly needs a PG.

I am enjoying this.
Keep em coming,
at least you watch the games.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Damn it.
Its not the overall shooting %
In close def. battles like the Spurs and Cavs
its the last minutes of each quarter, especially the 4th.
Oberto absolutely destroyed the Cavs in the last few
minutes with layups in many of those games because Duncan
always draws doubles and such. Ginobili stretches
the D, Duncan draws the D in. Leaving gaps.

Do you think Oberto will help the Cavs?

Where did the easy shots come from on the Cavs?
Gooden cant do what Oberto did? Big I cant do that?
Lebron dribbles around out front and then just charges the
basket. His sense of spacing is just not there yet. Actually
his sense of spacing is quite bad but he can get away with
it because he is so good. He needs time to learn.
And he badly needs a PG.

I am enjoying this.
Keep em coming,
at least you watch the games.

It was the NBA finals...easy shots weren't easy to come by for anybody...especially cleveland. You can fool yourself into thinking it is all James fault for his spacing whatever. Fine...Oberto destroyed the Cavs because of all Duncan and ginobili do to defenses which excuses their poor shooting performances. I think you are employing the exaggeration game to the extreme right there. The Spurs won the series because of Tony Parker...end of story. Again if you think his spacing is so bad, you don't watch them that much. Basically the Cavs were playing great D on duncan and Ginoblili just as the Spurs were on James. As I said James did deal out 18 assists those two games. Something must have been spaced at some point. The Spurs were NOT doubling James that much...they were in essence making him take the outside shot...as you said that is not his strength...when he makes them he has games like game 5 against Detroit in the east finals and this week against Portland and LA. When he doesn't hit them you get the NBA finals last year. I saw game 3 of the finals...they got open look after open look from 3 point range and went 3 for 19. If Gibson shoots like he did in game 6 agaisnt Detroit or game 1 of the finals they win by 15 that game.

HE was not at his best that series I know...but give your own team some credit for that. You really expected cleveland to go out and score 110 every game?? The Spurs played great in game 2...but believe me other than that game scoring was no easy task for them that whole series either...(despite the plethora of easy Oberto baskets LOL!!..by the way...Gooden took TWICE as many shots as Oberto the last two games...my guess is his makes were easy looks. ). Parker put the whole team on his back is my assessment of that series.

LeBron certainly understands spacing however. LIke it or not their best chance to score is when James has the ball in his hands. They are the 3rd worst shooting team in the league this year and are 5 games above .500. James is shooting 48 percent taking the most shots on the team...the remainder of the team shoots a combined 42 percent. They are not the 3rd worst shooting team in the league because of him.

YEs, you are correct he can get better. His free throw shooting is troubling, but his outside shot is not as bad as some make it out to be. He makes more than his share. I still stand by my statement however that despite the fact he can get better he is already the best player in the game...and I really don't think it's that close.

[Mortimer]

The last full year the Cavs had everyone pretty much healthy was last year when they were number 5 in defense among all NBA teams.


Some imbeciles just don't understand the game.


They're more interested in blowing the pud of a certain league star.

[Mortimer]

Yes..that 's what I said.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

The last full year the Cavs had everyone pretty much healthy was last year when they were number 5 in defense among all NBA teams.


Some imbeciles just don't understand the game.


They're more interested in blowing the pud of a certain league star.

Man, you're cool. I typed on an internet board that LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. It isn't really that radical of a thought process that leads someone to type that. I stated the fact that Jhonny Peralta never led the AL in strikeouts. It is not a very radical statement to type on an internet board. It is the truth plain and simple.

Me stating legitimate if incorrect opinions....(James is the best player in the NBA) really doesn not take me to imbecile...don't understand the game status. I also brought up historical Cleveland Cavs history on how they had a plethora of players and very good teams in the late 80s and 90s...and how they never, ever got to the finals becuase each of their 3...50 win seasons they ran into a particular team and player in the playoffs and couldn't get by him. AFter viewing that history, I prefer to have the best player in the game on my team, and darn it if that didn't get them to their first final ever last year. You simply had no response to that...none other than to blast me. Because quite frankly there is no response.

Remember the 1976 team?? Great team...should have won the title...but low and behold their best player breaks his foot in practice before the eastern conference finals, and despite still having several good players, losing Jim chones killed them. Remember that?? You simply aren't as good when you lose your best players.

You can try to argue facts, history and whatever on Cleveland sports for the rest of your life. I'm not backing down because you say thebby which makes you some sort of genius or something. I don't understand it....again I'm not in MENSA. The Cavaliers are legitimate right now becuase they have the best player in the game and some decent supporting players who will play defense at times. I honestly don't think they are a playoff team without him.

I've never met LEBron James. I simply type about him on an internet board. What exactly is pud???

[Mortimer]

Rambling,snorting ,schizophrenic diatribe.


Your snotisms ,then, prove Here'sJohnny is a great contact hitter? Your race to the stats bag over my comment only proves....my comment!!


And guess what? With the 5-7 best players of many teams and James.......they're not a playoff team either!




Keep it simple. Here'sJohhny is no ss and James is not Jesus.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

It was the NBA finals...easy shots weren't easy to come by for anybody...especially cleveland. You can fool yourself into thinking it is all James fault for his spacing whatever. Fine...Oberto destroyed the Cavs because of all Duncan and ginobili do to defenses which excuses their poor shooting performances. I think you are employing the exaggeration game to the extreme right there. The Spurs won the series because of Tony Parker...end of story. Again if you think his spacing is so bad, you don't watch them that much. Basically the Cavs were playing great D on duncan and Ginoblili just as the Spurs were on James. As I said James did deal out 18 assists those two games. Something must have been spaced at some point. The Spurs were NOT doubling James that much...they were in essence making him take the outside shot...as you said that is not his strength...when he makes them he has games like game 5 against Detroit in the east finals and this week against Portland and LA. When he doesn't hit them you get the NBA finals last year. I saw game 3 of the finals...they got open look after open look from 3 point range and went 3 for 19. If Gibson shoots like he did in game 6 agaisnt Detroit or game 1 of the finals they win by 15 that game.

HE was not at his best that series I know...but give your own team some credit for that. You really expected cleveland to go out and score 110 every game?? The Spurs played great in game 2...but believe me other than that game scoring was no easy task for them that whole series either...(despite the plethora of easy Oberto baskets LOL!!..by the way...Gooden took TWICE as many shots as Oberto the last two games...my guess is his makes were easy looks. ). Parker put the whole team on his back is my assessment of that series.

LeBron certainly understands spacing however. LIke it or not their best chance to score is when James has the ball in his hands. They are the 3rd worst shooting team in the league this year and are 5 games above .500. James is shooting 48 percent taking the most shots on the team...the remainder of the team shoots a combined 42 percent. They are not the 3rd worst shooting team in the league because of him.

YEs, you are correct he can get better. His free throw shooting is troubling, but his outside shot is not as bad as some make it out to be. He makes more than his share. I still stand by my statement however that despite the fact he can get better he is already the best player in the game...and I really don't think it's that close.

Fair enough.

The Spurs did not double Lebron they just manup help (somewhat of a zone)
so he cant penetrate. When he penetrates he is the most dangerous player in the league. He has the strength of Carmello inside with better dribbling ability.
You dont want to double a guy who is dribbling out front,
it opens too many passing lanes. You double down low or baseline/sideline.

The game Gooden hit about 7 straight baseline jumpers
is exactly how to play. Cleveland just could not work that
after the Spurs sagged back on him and not playing as close
to Big I. Lebron has a very diff. time using Big I imo. Or maybe
lets say the coach has a diff. time using them. They set very poor screens
with Ig. But then again that should be a PG Ig is screening for, not Lebron up top.
Hughes cannot play point. Lebron tries to and fails. And Gibson is a 2.
They need a PG, I say again.

[Mortimer]

Hughes could be a fine point guard.



He doesn't want to be one....he just wants to fire away from long distance at sg and no one to bother him.


You're getting dumber from engaging MainCourse.