Hey King Glorious

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by pgardn

A bit premature.
Just a bit... a little bit.

Howard
Garnett
Yao
Duncan
Amarie
Boozer

I dont need to go on. And dont call Duncan, Boozer, Amarie or Garnett PF like they do in All Star crap, they are centers. Which two of these players above do you think Bynum is better than right now?

Answer: NONE

and we could add some more.
And you think Bynum has more upside than Howard(youngest of that group)?
You are not serious.

We disagree on who's a center and who's not. Duncan and Garnett are not centers. To call 6-8 Carlos Boozer a center is a joke. Stoudamire is debatable but even he says he's not a center. There is a difference in being a center and being forced to play the center position. The Mavs go through some periods with Nowitzki listed as their biggest player on the floor and listed as a center. Do you consider him one also? I think Bynum is behind Howard. I think it's a coin flip with Ming. If you include Stoudamire, he's behind him as well. It's pretty much a coin flip with Kaman also. So I think that Bynum is at best #2 and at worst #5.

Dwight Howard is nearly two years older than Bynum is. When Howard was 20 years old, in his second season, he averaged:

15.8 points, 12.5 boards, 1.4 blocks, shot 53%, and played 36.8 minutes in 81 starts.

Bynum at 20, as a starter:

14.8 points, 10.8 boards, 2.4 blocks, 66% shooting, playing 31.1 minutes in 24 starts.

On the surface, the raw numbers are VERY comparable and I'd say favor Bynum. When you look deeper, it's even more in Bynum's favor. At the same age, Howard had played over 2600 minutes in the NBA with a full season as a starter under his belt. Bynum, coming into this season had played just over 2100 minutes and had 53 career starts. It's also worth looking at the list of the guys you consider centers. With the exception of Garnett and Howard, all of the rest are in the Western Conference where Bynum has to face them more often. Add in Kaman and it's even tougher out there. Howard had none of them over in the East till Garnett came this year. So the competition on a nightly basis is tougher for Bynum. One other important fact. Dwight Howard was the leading scorer on that 2005-06 Orlando team. He's still their go-to guy now. Bynum is getting all of his as the third option on this Laker team at best. And it's also worth noting that Howard went into the NBA with a complete high school career. Bynum played about 25 games in high school.

I think that Bynum's upside is higher than Howard's.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

And it's also worth noting that Howard went into the NBA with a complete high school career. Bynum played about 25 games in high school.

I thought this sounded funny.

Bynum is a good player with lots of potential but he is not in the same league as Dwight Howard right now. I think there is a better chance that he progresses to a nice 17 pt 12 rebound player than a 2008 version of D.Howard.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I thought this sounded funny.

Bynum is a good player with lots of potential but he is not in the same league as Dwight Howard right now. I think there is a better chance that he progresses to a nice 17 pt 12 rebound player than a 2008 version of D.Howard.

He's a damn near 17-12 guy now. He's at 15 and 11 now as the third option on his team behind Kobe Bryant and playing 31 minutes a game. He's taking an average of about 8.5 shots per game. He could easily be at 17-12 this season before it's over with. You don't think he'll be any better than he is now? I'm not saying he's as good as Howard is right now. But I think he's better at 20 or at least as good as Howard was at the same age and Howard had more NBA experience behind him at that point. I wonder what Bynum would be averaging right now if he was the go-to guy on his team like Howard is?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

He's a damn near 17-12 guy now. He's at 15 and 11 now as the third option on his team behind Kobe Bryant and playing 31 minutes a game. He's taking an average of about 8.5 shots per game. He could easily be at 17-12 this season before it's over with. You don't think he'll be any better than he is now? I'm not saying he's as good as Howard is right now. But I think he's better at 20 or at least as good as Howard was at the same age and Howard had more NBA experience behind him at that point. I wonder what Bynum would be averaging right now if he was the go-to guy on his team like Howard is?

Howard is not a typical go to guy. He gets most of his points on the boards and on dunks. Bynum is helped immensely by having Kobe and Odom on his team because their men can not double down leaving Bynum alone with only his man to beat. I think he can be better, more refined but I dont see a huge leap where he suddenly gets a Tim Duncan midrange jumper. If teams double down on him he has no real answers but they wont because of the prescence of Kobe.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Howard is not a typical go to guy. He gets most of his points on the boards and on dunks. Bynum is helped immensely by having Kobe and Odom on his team because their men can not double down leaving Bynum alone with only his man to beat. I think he can be better, more refined but I dont see a huge leap where he suddenly gets a Tim Duncan midrange jumper. If teams double down on him he has no real answers but they wont because of the prescence of Kobe.

He does have some problems with doubles although he is becoming a better passer with more and more experience. I think Howard benefits a little bit the same way Bynum does by having very capable 3pt shooters like Lewis (39%) and Turkoglu (37%) to stretch the defenses out a little. The thing that may keep Bynum from getting to Howard's level is that Howard is going to keep getting better than he is now but I have no doubt that Bynum can reach Howard's current level.

[IrishofNDMan]

speaking as a Laker fan, besides Lebron James, Dwight Howard is the most untradeable player in the league. As a Laker fan, if I was told we could get Dwight Howard for Bynum and our first round pick next year that would be awesome, but that's only a dream.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

He does have some problems with doubles although he is becoming a better passer with more and more experience. I think Howard benefits a little bit the same way Bynum does by having very capable 3pt shooters like Lewis (39%) and Turkoglu (37%) to stretch the defenses out a little. The thing that may keep Bynum from getting to Howard's level is that Howard is going to keep getting better than he is now but I have no doubt that Bynum can reach Howard's current level.

If the Lakers were offered a trade straight up, Bynum for Howard, they would take on the spot. If you were the GM of the Lakers and did not take this trade you would and should be castrated.

THere is no flippin way Bynum is close to the athlete Howard is... NO WAY.
Howard is an absolute freak that needs refining. Once he becomes a basketball player... Bynum is not even better than Gasol.

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Looks like Nostradamus Glorious put the mush on Bynum. Out at least 8 weeks with a dislocated knee cap.

Hopefully this isn't the start of an injury plagued career.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Looks like Nostradamus Glorious put the mush on Bynum. Out at least 8 weeks with a dislocated knee cap.

What?

He is a shoo in for the HOF...
Injuries are not fair for a guy
destined for the HOF.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Looks like Nostradamus Glorious put the mush on Bynum. Out at least 8 weeks with a dislocated knee cap.

Let me just say this. If you are simple enough to believe that me giving the guy some praise caused this injury....then you should be very careful how you speak to or about me on this forum because if I have that kind of power, you don't want to be on my bad side.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

We disagree on who's a center and who's not. Duncan and Garnett are not centers. To call 6-8 Carlos Boozer a center is a joke. Stoudamire is debatable but even he says he's not a center. There is a difference in being a center and being forced to play the center position. The Mavs go through some periods with Nowitzki listed as their biggest player on the floor and listed as a center. Do you consider him one also? I think Bynum is behind Howard. I think it's a coin flip with Ming. If you include Stoudamire, he's behind him as well. It's pretty much a coin flip with Kaman also. So I think that Bynum is at best #2 and at worst #5.

Dwight Howard is nearly two years older than Bynum is. When Howard was 20 years old, in his second season, he averaged:

15.8 points, 12.5 boards, 1.4 blocks, shot 53%, and played 36.8 minutes in 81 starts.

Bynum at 20, as a starter:

14.8 points, 10.8 boards, 2.4 blocks, 66% shooting, playing 31.1 minutes in 24 starts.

On the surface, the raw numbers are VERY comparable and I'd say favor Bynum. When you look deeper, it's even more in Bynum's favor. At the same age, Howard had played over 2600 minutes in the NBA with a full season as a starter under his belt. Bynum, coming into this season had played just over 2100 minutes and had 53 career starts. It's also worth looking at the list of the guys you consider centers. With the exception of Garnett and Howard, all of the rest are in the Western Conference where Bynum has to face them more often. Add in Kaman and it's even tougher out there. Howard had none of them over in the East till Garnett came this year. So the competition on a nightly basis is tougher for Bynum. One other important fact. Dwight Howard was the leading scorer on that 2005-06 Orlando team. He's still their go-to guy now. Bynum is getting all of his as the third option on this Laker team at best. And it's also worth noting that Howard went into the NBA with a complete high school career. Bynum played about 25 games in high school.

I think that Bynum's upside is higher than Howard's.

Then who are the centers on their teams? Duncan and Garnett are Centers. The line is very blurred on this. I MIGHT give you Garnett a not being a center. But if you think Amare St. is sort of a center. Then Duncan is a pure center. The only reason Duncan was moved off the allstar ballot at Center is so that he would start because Yao takes 4 zillion Chinese votes.

Boozer is not 6' 8". And Wes Unseld was a center at 6" 6 1/2"

Find one GM that would take Bynum over Howard, and I will give you a GM that does not deserve to be near a basketball team... EVER.

[Cannon Shell]

There are few traditional centers anymore. Boozer is a low post player who plays closer to the basket than the Jazz center who is always hanging out by the 3 point line. He also guards the opposing teams low post player in many occasions.

They may want to call Duncan a forward but he sure plays like a center