Pick your candidate

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

If a person believes that life begins at conception, they won't have an abortion.

If a person believes that the thing implanted in the uterine wall is not life, they will feel comfortable having an abortion.

That, is called choice. It's not falling into a "pathetic trap of using each side's 'buzz words'" when it's the the very definition of choice that I support.

I have little need for the labels of "pro-life" or "pro-choice," but if people are going to use "pro-life" I'm going to feel free to call it what it is, and that's anti-choice.

Brian,
I agree regarding the individual examples you mention EXCEPT for one thing, if a person believes it is life, they can hardly stand mutely by while, in their eyes, others "kill" said life. If a person believes it is little more than a growth then they can hardly stand mutely by while others deny the woman the opportunity to be free of same....that's where things get difficult not to mention complex! You know my belief..."if ye harm none, do as ye will"...but if I believe harm is being done...?! As a feminist and by my religious beliefs, I firmly support individual choice and individual responsibility...but that also demands that I speak out against something I believe is wrong. There is nothing anti-choice in my position. Again, don't reduce my beliefs to a slogan.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Brian,
I agree regarding the individual examples you mention EXCEPT for one thing, if a person believes it is life, they can hardly stand mutely by while, in their eyes, others "kill" said life. If a person believes it is little more than a growth then they can hardly stand mutely by while others deny the woman the opportunity to be free of same....that's where things get difficult not to mention complex! You know my belief..."if ye harm none, do as ye will"...but if I believe harm is being done...?! As a feminist and by my religious beliefs, I firmly support individual choice and individual responsibility...but that also demands that I speak out against something I believe is wrong. There is nothing anti-choice in my position. Again, don't reduce my beliefs to a slogan.

Says the man who two posts back used the terms "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."

"Pro-abortion" is perhaps the single most wild and fallacious of all of the abortion-related slogans.

The rest is an old song and dance that we've already been over that I don't particularly feel like slogging my way through again. It's tiresome (as I'm sure it is for anti-choicers too), because it's really impossible to have any legitimate, rational debate with (not necessarily you, but the general composite anti-choicer) the type who yammers their ass off about protecting life while loving the death penalty, loving war, and creaming their pants over torture more than any other group of people in this country.

Pro-life my ass.

[somerfrost]

[quote=brianwspencer]Says the man who two posts back used the terms "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."

"Pro-abortion" is perhaps the single most wild and fallacious of all of the abortion-related slogans.

The rest is an old song and dance that we've already been over that I don't particularly feel like slogging my way through again. It's tiresome (as I'm sure it is for anti-choicers too), because it's really impossible to have any legitimate, rational debate with (not necessarily you, but the general composite anti-choicer) the type who yammers their ass off about protecting life while loving the death penalty, loving war, and creaming their pants over torture more than any other group of people in this country.

Pro-life my ass.[

I don't disagree that it seems that most folks on the so-called "christian right" tend to be anti-abortion, pro-war and pro-death penalty while finding no issue with torture...that has NOTHING to do with the issue...don't damn the issue because certain folks tend to take a specific stand. They may well be against freedom for women...you'll have to take that up with them. I can only speak for myself...I'm not christian, don't support war, torture or the death penalty and certainly don't, as a feminist, want to in any way restrict a woman's freedom to make decisions. You still are focusing on the messenger and not the message!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I don't disagree that it seems that most folks on the so-called "christian right" tend to be anti-abortion, pro-war and pro-death penalty while finding no issue with torture...that has NOTHING to do with the issue...don't damn the issue because certain folks tend to take a specific stand. They may well be against freedom for women...you'll have to take that up with them. I can only speak for myself...I'm not christian, don't support war, torture or the death penalty and certainly don't, as a feminist, want to in any way restrict a woman's freedom to make decisions. You still are focusing on the messenger and not the message!

Well on this tangent, the messenger is of the utmost importance. In the bigger picture of what I talked about in my last post, the people saying it are absolutely to be focused on.

Because if their entire point is a claim of concern for life when talking about whatever-you-want-to-call-it at conception, yet they simultaneously show a flagrant disregard for life (and in some ways, seem to even take joy in actively supporting the destruction of life) in so many other areas -- it's not really out of bounds to come to the conclusion that it has nothing to do with life, and everything to do with controlling women.

Perhaps your position on the subject is more noble than those disingenuous folks I've just finished describing (and it comes from a different place...one I don't agree with, but the premise is more noble), but sadly for you -- your lot is cast with them. And as long as they keep acting like bonafide, anti-woman degenerates, your points all get lost in translation.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well on this tangent, the messenger is of the utmost importance. In the bigger picture of what I talked about in my last post, the people saying it are absolutely to be focused on.

Because if their entire point is a claim of concern for life when talking about whatever-you-want-to-call-it at conception, yet they simultaneously show a flagrant disregard for life (and in some ways, seem to even take joy in actively supporting the destruction of life) in so many other areas -- it's not really out of bounds to come to the conclusion that it has nothing to do with life, and everything to do with controlling women.

Perhaps your position on the subject is more noble than those disingenuous folks I've just finished describing (and it comes from a different place...one I don't agree with, but the premise is more noble), but sadly for you -- your lot is cast with them. And as long as they keep acting like bonafide, anti-woman degenerates, your points all get lost in translation.

Sadly, I fear you are right...

My wife...

The STAUNCH Republican or so she thinks
Had:
1. Obama
2. Biden
3. Clinton

She's all sputtering, how could this be...
I tell her this is not some scientific survey.
But it shows how much she takes into account
personality. She hates, despises, Clinton.

But of course it had no questions about how
important cankles are.

Sorry to interrrupt the fierce abortion
issue which we have visited an infinite number
of times.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by merasmag

what the hell are u saying then? u, sir, are not a feminist, as many times as u might say u are, and i'd really like to know how reversing roe v. wade would help women at all unless u have suddenly found a billion dollars somewhere...i gotta take this quiz or whatever the hell it is, just for giggles, but i contend that if u would pull the plug on your grandma, pappy, or child cause they were brain-dead then u have no room to say aborting a fetus with no such vital signs is murder-CASE CLOSED

Fortunately, since I don't believe in hell either, I don't have to worry about your ramblings...when exactly was the last time you made a coherent post? Anyway...I didn't say I was in favor of reversing Roe (that pesky reading comprehension problem of your's pops up again), you saying that I'm not a feminist is too funny to really respond to except that I wasn't aware that you were in charge of such determinations. I oppose euthanasia also...sorry to bust that bubble.

[SentToStud]

this thread needs Kevorkian

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

this thread needs Kevorkian

LOL! Is he out of jail yet?

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

LOL! Is he out of jail yet?

Thought you knew everything.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

this thread needs Kevorkian

Or an abortion.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Or an abortion.

Well, I'm done with it...nothing ever gets resolved...but Hillary is the next President!

OK.
I will enter the scrum.

How many of you that oppose abortion are willing to go to
all the prospective mothers and beg them to adopt their child
to be? How many on this board have actually stepped up to
the plate and adopted a child that was to be aborted?

I will reiterate. Talk is cheap. And dont say there are plenty of
kids adopted every day because there are plenty of minority kids
that white couples will not take that are ready and waiting for
a home. They might be crack babies, or meth babies, are just
from a single straight mom, but they are
waiting. Go adopt them, and then you stand on firm ground.

I dont like abortion at all. But I am unwilling to step to the plate,
so I step aside and dont tell a pregnant woman what she should
do.

This is simple and really important. Its not like saying I hate syn. track
so I must go help Santa Anita pull it all up and help pay for the dirt.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by merasmag

the last time i made a coherent post? probably the one yesterday saying to load up on einstein today ...but since you're so busy on a HORSERACING SITE talking about abortion u probably didn't notice it...i don't have a reading comprehension problem, u have a logic comprehension problem...it is impossible for someone to say they're pro-life and/or anti-abortion and not also be in favor of overturning the wade decision and actually mean what they say...otherwise, u are just making little tweaks to what u think the rule should be...and i'm dead serious when i say you're not a feminist, the fact you think it's too funny to respond to reinforces that opinion...i felt sorry for you with your buffy crap and whatever your personal problems were but not anymore...u oppose euthanasia? that's swell

BUFFY CRAP.....lol

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by merasmag

the last time i made a coherent post? probably the one yesterday saying to load up on einstein today ...but since you're so busy on a HORSERACING SITE talking about abortion u probably didn't notice it...i don't have a reading comprehension problem, u have a logic comprehension problem...it is impossible for someone to say they're pro-life and/or anti-abortion and not also be in favor of overturning the wade decision and actually mean what they say...otherwise, u are just making little tweaks to what u think the rule should be...and i'm dead serious when i say you're not a feminist, the fact you think it's too funny to respond to reinforces that opinion...i felt sorry for you with your buffy crap and whatever your personal problems were but not anymore...u oppose euthanasia? that's swell

So what does a TV show have to do with the issue? Same old Merasmag, still trying to convince yourself that I care about your ramblings...I do enjoy baiting you though...have another drink!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by merasmag

lol...another non sequitor....i know a guy that teaches a logic class still (i think) for u...if you're spouting all that stupid **** off for me it is truly on deaf ears...don't think you're fooling anyone with that, and, as most of us in the real world know, old jack died last year

LOL...nice "big word", good to know you can still find your dictionary! Yes, Jack has moved on...but there are many kinds of prisons. By the way, good to have you around again (really, not kidding...actually missed your posts).