12/7: Delta Downs (Stakes Quad)

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Bogey

Delta Downs

R5 - Treasure Chest

#4 Coolwind - Has the back class to handle this bunch.
#2 Ruling Class - Two good races at DeD.
#6 Game for More - Never off the board at DeD or distance.

R6 - Delta Princess

#8 By the Light - Nicely bred New Yorker is undefeated without really being challenged for Dutrow.
#7 Lady On Holiday - Gets a better post and should have no problem with the extra distance.
#10 Champagne Eyes - Cali invader for O'Neill is still a maiden, but can graduate here.
#9 Sky Mom - Asmussen filly won the KyCupJuv at TP and made a nice account for her versus graded company.

R7 Sam's Town Stakes

#6 Jonesboro - Won his only start at DeD and brings a ton of back class to this affair.
#7 Thunder Mission - Amoss tabs top local jock Gerard Melancon. 3rd in Thanksgiving Day Handicap at the FG.

R8 - Delta Jackpot $1 Million

#9 Turf War - Canadian invader failed at odds on in G3 Grey BC, but has the talent to take his picture in this event. As noted by Steve on the show, full brother to Grasshopper.
#6 Cave's Valley - Trombetta runner is undefeated in 3 starts and is training well at LRL.
#7 Racecar Rhapsody - Moving well late in G3 KyJockClub for McPeek, who won this race last year.
#4 Z Humor - Rail and slop excuse in BC Juvy and should bounce back to Champagne effort.

PK4 - 2 4 6 / 7 8 9 10 / 6 / 4 6 7 9 = $48

Good Racing Luck

Great call on Turf War Bogey.

[gilbertjump]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Great call on Turf War Bogey.

You playing Tampa tommorrow?


Would love to see it!


...Gilbert

[Bogey]

Bigs and Herk, Thanks - Good luck this weekend.

[Riot]

Good grief - who dumped $5K in the win pool on the 1 horse in the 6th? 7th? race?

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by gilbertjump

You playing Tampa tommorrow?


Would love to see it!


...Gilbert

Does the Pope wear a funny hat?

I'll have something up on GPK's thread later today.

[Kasept]

Superb job by Gus not only using Turf War, but building the ticket... And once again, he and all P4 players that had that clever opinion, are screwed by ridiculous rules that deliver a common quad payoff instead of splitting it proportionately between those that had Z Humor and those that had Turf War.

Steve Crist has written about this repeatedly, and never has it been more clear than in this dead heat finish. The 3-2 favorite and 8th betting choices are inseperable at the wire and no matter which one you had the payoff was $127.60 ($2). Outrageous... The parlay to Bill Mott's winner, off at $1.50-1 was about $60. Those that found Mark Casse's brother of Grasshopper appealing at $39.70-1 were scheduled for a $950.00 P4 reward based on the parlay. And based on the seperately paid P3 prices, it likely was much, much more.

The P3 pools? $31.80 to Z Humor; $402.40 to Turf War. How is it possible that in an era where the computerized pools can track anything, that those that took less risk betting to Turf War in P3's are rewarded three times greater than those that risked, and spent, more betting to Turf War in P4's?

Yet another insult to those that put money through the windows.

Feel compelled to write about this in a column. More after I figure out the math.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Superb job by Gus not only using Turf War, but building the ticket... And once again, he and all P4 players that had that clever opinion, are screwed by ridiculous rules that deliver a common quad payoff instead of splitting it proportionately between those that had Z Humor and those that had Turf War.

Steve Crist has written about this repeatedly, and never has it been more clear than in this dead heat finish. The 3-2 favorite and 8th betting choices are inseperable at the wire and no matter which one you had the payoff was $127.60 ($2). Outrageous... The parlay to Bill Mott's winner, off at $1.50-1 was about $60. Those that found Mark Casse's brother of Grasshopper appealing at $39.70-1 were scheduled for a $950.00 P4 reward based on the parlay. And based on the seperately paid P3 prices, it likely was much, much more.

The P3 pools? $31.80 to Z Humor; $402.40 to Turf War. How is it possible that in an era where the computerized pools can track anything, that those that took less risk betting to Turf War in P3's are rewarded three times greater than those that risked, and spent, more betting to Turf War in P4's?

Yet another insult to those that put money through the windows.

I saw that also, and admittedly was quite surprised as I was unaware of the rules. Is this pick 4 rule standard, or does it vary from track to track. It obviously happens relatively infrequently, but as you wrote, it is totally absurd and unfair.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Superb job by Gus not only using Turf War, but building the ticket... And once again, he and all P4 players that had that clever opinion, are screwed by ridiculous rules that deliver a common quad payoff instead of splitting it proportionately between those that had Z Humor and those that had Turf War.

Steve Crist has written about this repeatedly, and never has it been more clear than in this dead heat finish. The 3-2 favorite and 8th betting choices are inseperable at the wire and no matter which one you had the payoff was $127.60 ($2). Outrageous... The parlay to Bill Mott's winner, off at $1.50-1 was about $60. Those that found Mark Casse's brother of Grasshopper appealing at $39.70-1 were scheduled for a $950.00 P4 reward based on the parlay. And based on the seperately paid P3 prices, it likely was much, much more.

The P3 pools? $31.80 to Z Humor; $402.40 to Turf War. How is it possible that in an era where the computerized pools can track anything, that those that took less risk betting to Turf War in P3's are rewarded three times greater than those that risked, and spent, more betting to Turf War in P4's?

Yet another insult to those that put money through the windows.

Feel compelled to write about this in a column. More after I figure out the math.

Well said Steve. As we sit here nearing 2008 for cripes sakes, we can't get two separate payouts with a dead heat in a P4? They have no problem cranking out separate wps, exactas, tris, supers and P3's, but don't bother with the P4. Deplorable.

[bulllea]

This is ridiculous on the Delta P4 payout. Did they show the P4 payoffs before the race was run? Seems like most tracks do.

I have never had this happen before. Do all other tracks and states have the same type payoff structure?

Thanks,
Bulllea

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Superb job by Gus not only using Turf War, but building the ticket... And once again, he and all P4 players that had that clever opinion, are screwed by ridiculous rules that deliver a common quad payoff instead of splitting it proportionately between those that had Z Humor and those that had Turf War.

Steve Crist has written about this repeatedly, and never has it been more clear than in this dead heat finish. The 3-2 favorite and 8th betting choices are inseperable at the wire and no matter which one you had the payoff was $127.60 ($2). Outrageous... The parlay to Bill Mott's winner, off at $1.50-1 was about $60. Those that found Mark Casse's brother of Grasshopper appealing at $39.70-1 were scheduled for a $950.00 P4 reward based on the parlay. And based on the seperately paid P3 prices, it likely was much, much more.

The P3 pools? $31.80 to Z Humor; $402.40 to Turf War. How is it possible that in an era where the computerized pools can track anything, that those that took less risk betting to Turf War in P3's are rewarded three times greater than those that risked, and spent, more betting to Turf War in P4's?

Yet another insult to those that put money through the windows.

Feel compelled to write about this in a column. More after I figure out the math.

Steve, I'm glad you brought this up because I felt like I was robbed last night. I understand the rule, but it is clearly unacceptable and should not be tolerated by horseplayers. With the long look at the photo and then the jockey objection, I was just thinking that if it was a DEAD-HEAT, I'd get the worst case scenerio in the payoffs. I'm not complaining because I was directly effected (kinda), but this matter must be submitted to those that can adjust the PK4 payoffs.

Simply Repulsive - WOW

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Bogey

Steve, I'm glad you brought this up because I felt like I was robbed last night. I understand the rule, but it is clearly unacceptable and should not be tolerated by horseplayers. With the long look at the photo and then the jockey objection, I was just thinking that if it was a DEAD-HEAT, I'd get the worst case scenerio in the payoffs. I'm not complaining because I was directly effected (kinda), but this matter must be submitted to those that can adjust the PK4 payoffs.

Simply Repulsive - WOW

I feel for ya Gus. No way in hell, that we as horseplayers, who bet our hard earned money should accept this. Two seperate payouts should have been paid. No if's and's or but's about it.

Great job picking Turf War.

[Kasept]

To the questions regarding it's application, the rule is widely utilized... Here's LA and NJ as examples...


LOUISIANA:

Chapter 116. Pick Four
§11615. Dead Heats
EMERGENCY RULE

A. In the event of a dead heat for win between two or more horses in any pick four race, all such horses in the dead heat for win shall be considered as winning horses in the race for the purpose of calculating the pool and payoffs. There shall be a separate payoff price, per dollar calculated, for each winning combination as follows: from the gross pool is deducted the takeout, consolation payoff amounts, if any, and amounts wagered on all winning combinations. The balance shall be divided by the number of different winning combinations upon which bets were sold, each resulting allocated part being assigned to each respective winning combination. An allocated part plus the amounts bet on each winning combination when divided by the amount bet on each winning combination (less breakage) shall be the resulting payoff per dollar per respective winning combination.


NEW JERSEY:

In the event of a dead heat for first in any of the Pick-4/6 races involving contestants representing two or more betting interests, the Pick-4/6 pool shall be distributed as a single price pool with each winning wager receiving an equal share of the Pick-4/6 pool.