Whale's past post sets off alarm

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

But if the windows were closed earlier, there exists a greater chance to catching malfunctions so that they do not affect the race wagering.

But what if there were 3 a year from a sample of 100000 races? Is that worth the handle lost and people pissed off? If you show me that this happens a lot then I think it is a big problem. But I have not heard it to be an issue except once every few years. The truth is that virtually noone knows if and when this happens. Is this happening alot?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

But what if there were 3 a year from a sample of 100000 races? Is that worth the handle lost and people pissed off? If you show me that this happens a lot then I think it is a big problem. But I have not heard it to be an issue except once every few years. The truth is that virtually noone knows if and when this happens. Is this happening alot?

the black box argument........

[Swale84]

Not that i'm doubting Mike Maloney's claim to be a whale, but isn't there a big difference between betting $6 million or $12 million a year? Seems like a big range to me

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Swale84

Not that i'm doubting Mike Maloney's claim to be a whale, but isn't there a big difference between betting $6 million or $12 million a year? Seems like a big range to me

small numbers to a player like Hooves..

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

small numbers to a player like Hooves..

if i had YOUR money id set mine on fire.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

if i had YOUR money id set mine on fire.....

my money is fire proof....all coins

[Payson Dave]

It would be nice to know how often that it does happen...the appearance of more impropriety does not help the game.

[ninetoone]

I've decided that I'm OK with it, as long as people are only allowed to wager late on a losing horse.

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

I've decided that I'm OK with it, as long as people are only allowed to wager late on a losing horse.

Well it would also be ok if I (and only I) could get my bet in right up until they get to the sixteenth pole...

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

Well it would also be ok if I (and only I) could get my bet in right up until they get to the sixteenth pole...

I still would have lost the BC Sprint this year...

[Rudeboyelvis]

We're talking about a few tickets entered a couple moments after the break - It's not like the guy watched the break, then figured out which horses he wanted and then started placing wagers - The bets were placed. In the grand scheme, really seems to me to be a non issue... Time to put away the tin foil hats - no conspiriacy here

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

We're talking about a few tickets entered a couple moments after the break

He is claiming that they were a half mile into the race and he was still getting his tickets punched....give me that opportunity and I gotta believe that my win percentage would go up.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

He is claiming that they were a half mile into the race and he was still getting his tickets punched....give me that opportunity and I gotta believe that my win percentage would go up.

Ooops...I read this part:

>>>Lenny Vangilder, a spokesman for Fair Grounds, confirmed that wagering was not stopped when the race began. He said that the stop wagering mechanism the stewards use malfunctioned, and that the mutual manager stopped wagering 15 seconds after the race began.<<<


And glanced over this part:

>>>Maloney said that he wagered well after that, saying that he was placing wagering at least a half-mile into the 1 1/16-mile race<<<

And he still couldn't pick a winner

Seriously, You'd think it would be easy enough to figure out how often the system *hiccups*...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

If virtually no one knows when this happens, then we have a "push" here: maybe it happens more frequently than the "isolated" incidents about which we hear.

And if it does then it may be an bigger issue than I am giving it credit for

[ALostTexan]

I heard his talk today, and he seemed to be using this as just an example. He also made the bets on the horse that he had already bet on, as to not gain an advantage.

Maloney has an overall concern about the security of the betting pools, and as just using this as an example, not an isolated event. He made alot of sense today...

[Bobby Fischer]

I have witnessed a machine error before at an OTB. It allowed a certain exotic wager for a couple dollars less than it should have. Was a repeatable error and unique only to that machine and not the others.
I was very busy at the time, and I didn't exploit it or report it.
I wonder if months later that machine still does it?

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Also, I'd like to hear the teller's explanation for punching the tickets knowing that the race had already gone off.

That's unacceptable, regardless of the explanation that the track is trying to grab every last wagering dollar on each race.

I remember an incident at Arlington in the mid 80s. The gate opens and a 30-1 goes to the lead. A couple tellers realize the machines are still live. Tellers start betting. When the 30-1 shot who went to the lead crossed the wire in front, a near riot ensued when he was now 5-1 on the board. THey did catch the tellers but some real bad PR being the lead story on the 10 pm news. I've always been curious if they could skim some money off the top with late windows; as long as they weren't too greedy, they probably wouldn't get caught. What percentage of the time do payoffs go up from when the horses are loading into the gate? That percentage must be very low since so many winners get hit hard late.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by JJP

I remember an incident at Arlington in the mid 80s. The gate opens and a 30-1 goes to the lead. A couple tellers realize the machines are still live. Tellers start betting. When the 30-1 shot who went to the lead crossed the wire in front, a near riot ensued when he was now 5-1 on the board. THey did catch the tellers but some real bad PR being the lead story on the 10 pm news. I've always been curious if they could skim some money off the top with late windows; as long as they weren't too greedy, they probably wouldn't get caught. What percentage of the time do payoffs go up from when the horses are loading into the gate? That percentage must be very low since so many winners get hit hard late.

As far as changing odds are concerned, it's only visible to the public if the money is bet in the Win pool... if it were placed in the exotic pools, all you would see would be surprisingly low payouts, which we do see all the time (although we can't be sure as to why).

I have really only been shut out of one bet that I absolutely wanted to make.. that was over a year ago, and it occurred when lightning struck the simulcast parlor, and the electricity went out with 7 minutes to post... came back on as they were loading.

[golfer]

Dave Johnson (who was the moderator of the symposium) just said on his Sirius radio show that Mike Maloney claims that his specific story about betting after a race starts was NOT an isolated incident!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

If I were a trainer, whose livelihood depends upon the handle that drives purses, there is no way I'd type "Get over it" on this issue.

At the end of the day, I agree with you that this is a rare instance, but "Get over it" was bad form.

I did not know that my opinions needed to be qualified any differently because my "livelihood depends on" the issue. I would venture that this has been occuring for as long as machines were used to take wagers. Probably less now than ever.