Breeders' Cup Going for Grade 1's Again

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

That's easy. The Prioress has been the worst Grade 1 about 4 years running. I think this year was the first time in years a horse went into the race with a triple digit Beyer on their resume.

Wild Gams, who was second in 2006, disproves that.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Wild Gams, who was second in 2006, disproves that.

Did Wild Gams have a 100 Beyer going into the Prioress? I'd be surpised if she did.

As for the earlier comment above by Sniper, why do 3YO filly sprinters need a Grade 1? This race is a prep for the Test, which is a borderline Grade 1 at best; probably no more worthy of Grade 2. In 2006 an Illinois bred who was off the board in her previous race, an Illinois bred stake, ran 2nd in the Test. As for the Prioress, you see horses like Acey Deucey win and you know the race is a fraud. If there's a way to go back and check out pps from the race, go do it and you will be very underwhelmed. Take away the winner from the race this year and is a rich FNW2X. I've railed on this race for years and the graded stakes committee is stupid for not downgrading it.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

Did Wild Gams have a 100 Beyer going into the Prioress? I'd be surpised if she did.

Out of curiousity, which one of these two options would you be more inclined to bet $10K on......that I'm right or that I looked it up to make 100% sure I was right?

[JJP]

So what did she get, a 100 going against a 5 horse field at Delaware? I never considered Wild Gams to be the next coming of Ruffian......what happened to her in the Filly Mare Sprint?

It doesn't change my point; the race is totally unworthy of Grade 1 status and deserves no more than Grade 3 status.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

So what did she get, a 100 going against a 5 horse field at Delaware? I never considered Wild Gams to be the next coming of Ruffian......what happened to her in the Filly Mare Sprint?

It doesn't change my point; the race is totally unworthy of Grade 1 status and deserves no more than Grade 3 status.

My my, apparently you don't like being wrong here. She earned her 100 plus Beyer figure with an extremely impressive stakes victory in NY.

You were wrong. We all are pretty often. Deal with it.

[parsixfarms]

The problem with the Prioress is that it is typically run about a week or two before the Azalea Stakes on Calder's Summit of Speed card - and the Azalea has a bigger purse. The competition dilutes both races. I agree with those who say that the Prioress - often viewed as a prep for the Test - is not worthy of its Grade I status; however, the Test is annually one of the best races of the Saratoga meet and fully deserving of its status.

[blackthroatedwind]

Furthermore, if you actually looked over the names of Prioress winners in the last 20 years you would see a host of Grade 1 horses winning ( and also hitting the board ). If you want to say the entire ratings system is screwed up I can understand but this race has many Grade 1 quality winners by today's standards.

Here's a few names for you......Carson Hollow, Xtra Heat, Marley Vale ( second ), Hurricane Bertie, Capote Belle, Heavenly Prize ( second ), Classy Mirage and Safely Kept.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Furthermore, if you actually looked over the names of Prioress winners in the last 20 years you would see a host of Grade 1 horses winning ( and also hitting the board ). If you want to say the entire ratings system is screwed up I can understand but this race has many Grade 1 quality winners by today's standards.

Here's a few names for you......Carson Hollow, Xtra Heat, Marley Vale ( second ), Hurricane Bertie, Capote Belle, Heavenly Prize ( second ), Classy Mirage and Safely Kept.

I agree that several of these were very talented fillies, although most of them were relatively unaccomplished at the time that they ran in the Prioress. My problem with the grades assigned is that too much emphasis is often given to the winner without looking at the overall quality of the field. (This goes against the point I just made, but since 2000, the Prioress winners have included the rather undistinguished I'm Brassy, House Party, Friendly Michelle, Acey Deucey and Wildcat Bettie B.) In many cases, even the years when there were first-class winners of the race, the field was not much more than a glorified NW2X allowance, as opposed to the Test which is like a "summit-meeting" of top 3YO fillies and which connections have long pointed their fillies.


Without regard to history our marketing by the tracks, here are a few grade Is that have fallen on hard times in recent years and should have their status reconsidered, IMO:

Alcibiades (maiden winners the past two years), Ancient Title (short fields on a BC prep weekend when many top sprinters use the Vosburgh or go in fresh), Clement Hirsch Turf (just not a strong race, perhaps due to its 10F distance with BC in a few weeks), DeFrancis Dash (post-BC impact), Gazelle (always a short field and just a few weeks after the Alabama), Gulfstream Park BC Turf (a grade I turf race on the East Coast so early in the season is questionable, at best), Lady's Secret, Sword Dancer (diluted by competition with Arlington Million), and Vanity. There are also a number of those older filly and mare races on the West Coast whose names I often confuse whose grading are undeserved.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Furthermore, if you actually looked over the names of Prioress winners in the last 20 years you would see a host of Grade 1 horses winning ( and also hitting the board ). If you want to say the entire ratings system is screwed up I can understand but this race has many Grade 1 quality winners by today's standards.

Here's a few names for you......Carson Hollow, Xtra Heat, Marley Vale ( second ), Hurricane Bertie, Capote Belle, Heavenly Prize ( second ), Classy Mirage and Safely Kept.

How many of those names won in recent years? Yeah, Safely Kept was a monster but that was what, 1989 or 1990? The bottom line is this race has been putrid in recent years and if it was run in any other state besides NY or California, it would be a Grade 3.

[fpsoxfan]

Can anyone hear explain why they want to continue adding BC races? Why does everything in our country have to be ruined by this "you know we have a great product here, but if we make it bigger it will be better."

I've been betting the Breeder's Cup since 1989 and have had a blast doing it.
Whether you choose to attend it, go someplace to watch it, or just enjoy the comfort of your own chair or couch, it's the best day in horse racing.
I was able to stomach the extra day this year, but to add more races on top of this is just simply moronic.

This "supersize me" culture we live in with Super Bowl Sunday pre-games that start 12 hours before the game and World Series that you have to stay up half the night to watch is just sports in general. Now it looks like the BC wants to tinker with what seems to have worked well since it's inception.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by JJP

Did Wild Gams have a 100 Beyer going into the Prioress? I'd be surpised if she did.

She ran a monster race in the Cicada....

Than was laid off 2.5 months and responded with a 33 Beyer in some small stake Belmont Stakes weekend...when I singled her in some multi-win exotics.

She was 2nd in the Prioress at 19/1 one month later.

[SentToStud]

Off the top of my head, a few that deserve to be looked at might include
-Carter
-Gulf PArk Breeders
-Del Mar Fut
-Del Mar Deb
-Brooklyn
-Hollywood Derby
-Oak Leaf

I'm tempted toss in the Cigar on the basis of Naughty New Yorker earning a G1 placing being just cause.

I'm not saying I personally would bump then down; I just can't see how they rationalize the need for a greater number of Grade 1 races.

[blackthroatedwind]

The Brooklyn has been a grade 2 for years.

I don't agree about the Carter at all and think you need to look at the fields overall again. One or two mediocre runnings doesn't downgrade a race of that kind of status and longevity.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Brooklyn has been a grade 2 for years.

I don't agree about the Carter at all and think you need to look at the fields overall again. One or two mediocre runnings doesn't downgrade a race of that kind of status and longevity.

Oops on the Brooklyn. Fair enough on the Carter (Bishop Court Hill winning was one thing; winning at 3-1 is another). By the same token and logic, just tossing a million bucks out and calling a race a Breeders Cup "championship" does not merit immediate or accelerated G 1 status.

I readily admit I am well beyond logic and reason when it comes to the BC and proliferation of diluted G 1 races.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Oops on the Brooklyn. Fair enough on the Carter (Bishop Court Hill winning was one thing; winning at 3-1 is another). By the same token and logic, just tossing a million bucks out and calling a race a Breeders Cup "championship" does not merit immediate or accelerated G 1 status.

I readily admit I am well beyond logic and reason when it comes to the BC and proliferation of diluted G 1 races.

Based on the Bishop Court Hill running it should be moved to the Claiming Crown.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Off the top of my head, a few that deserve to be looked at might include
-Carter
-Gulf PArk Breeders
-Del Mar Fut
-Del Mar Deb
-Brooklyn
-Hollywood Derby
-Oak Leaf

I'm tempted toss in the Cigar on the basis of Naughty New Yorker earning a G1 placing being just cause.

I'm not saying I personally would bump then down; I just can't see how they rationalize the need for a greater number of Grade 1 races.

The Gulfstream Park Breeders should definitely be the first one downgraded.

I don't agree with the others aside from the Brooklyn which is already G2.

The only reason to downgrade the Del Mar 2yo races is cause they are now irrelevant with the poly playing so different from the cushion.