Breeders' Cup Going for Grade 1's Again

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If the BC and stakes committee are one in the same it is awfully interesting that they are denying the BC graded status.

It is hard to follow how the Breeders Cup is to blame for The Makers Mark, Just A Game or First Lady being upgraded. If any race deserves an upgrade it is the Makers MArk. Run in April, the last 3 year it was won by the future BC mile winner in Kip Deville, Miesques Approval and Artie Schiller. The First Lady gets a grade 1 field every year. The Just a Game is a race in June with little BC implications.

Of course they are one in the same. Look at the names of the BC-BoD and the TOBA-GSC. Same people. They are going to do what is in their own interest. This year it was bumping up those turf races while maintaining G 1 status for EVERY existing G 1.

I have no problem with bumping races up. I do have a problem with not bumping races down. And they don't bump some of the deserving-to-be-bumped-down G1's because that takes $$ out of their pocket or the pocket of one of their friends.

Can you imagine the ill-mannered looks that would be shot around the room if Stamps, Dinnie or whoever just won a race or cut a stud deal for a horse that won a G 1 that just got cut down? The horror!!

And when it comes time to throw one of the children out of the boat and actually bump down a G 1, you can bet it will be a Cali or Gulfstream race that goes down.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

And when it comes time to throw one of the children out of the boat and actually bump down a G 1, you can bet it will be a Cali or Gulfstream race that goes down.

Which G1s do you think should have been dropped down?

[JJP]

That's easy. The Prioress has been the worst Grade 1 about 4 years running. I think this year was the first time in years a horse went into the race with a triple digit Beyer on their resume.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by JJP

That's easy. The Prioress has been the worst Grade 1 about 4 years running. I think this year was the first time in years a horse went into the race with a triple digit Beyer on their resume.

It is 3yo fillies sprinting in early July. How often do 3yo fillies ever break 100 Beyer by that point? The race brings together the best 3yo filly sprinters. Isn't bringing together the best what defines a G1?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

That's easy. The Prioress has been the worst Grade 1 about 4 years running. I think this year was the first time in years a horse went into the race with a triple digit Beyer on their resume.

Wild Gams, who was second in 2006, disproves that.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Wild Gams, who was second in 2006, disproves that.

Did Wild Gams have a 100 Beyer going into the Prioress? I'd be surpised if she did.

As for the earlier comment above by Sniper, why do 3YO filly sprinters need a Grade 1? This race is a prep for the Test, which is a borderline Grade 1 at best; probably no more worthy of Grade 2. In 2006 an Illinois bred who was off the board in her previous race, an Illinois bred stake, ran 2nd in the Test. As for the Prioress, you see horses like Acey Deucey win and you know the race is a fraud. If there's a way to go back and check out pps from the race, go do it and you will be very underwhelmed. Take away the winner from the race this year and is a rich FNW2X. I've railed on this race for years and the graded stakes committee is stupid for not downgrading it.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

Did Wild Gams have a 100 Beyer going into the Prioress? I'd be surpised if she did.

Out of curiousity, which one of these two options would you be more inclined to bet $10K on......that I'm right or that I looked it up to make 100% sure I was right?

[JJP]

So what did she get, a 100 going against a 5 horse field at Delaware? I never considered Wild Gams to be the next coming of Ruffian......what happened to her in the Filly Mare Sprint?

It doesn't change my point; the race is totally unworthy of Grade 1 status and deserves no more than Grade 3 status.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by JJP

Did Wild Gams have a 100 Beyer going into the Prioress? I'd be surpised if she did.

She ran a monster race in the Cicada....

Than was laid off 2.5 months and responded with a 33 Beyer in some small stake Belmont Stakes weekend...when I singled her in some multi-win exotics.

She was 2nd in the Prioress at 19/1 one month later.

[SentToStud]

Off the top of my head, a few that deserve to be looked at might include
-Carter
-Gulf PArk Breeders
-Del Mar Fut
-Del Mar Deb
-Brooklyn
-Hollywood Derby
-Oak Leaf

I'm tempted toss in the Cigar on the basis of Naughty New Yorker earning a G1 placing being just cause.

I'm not saying I personally would bump then down; I just can't see how they rationalize the need for a greater number of Grade 1 races.

[blackthroatedwind]

The Brooklyn has been a grade 2 for years.

I don't agree about the Carter at all and think you need to look at the fields overall again. One or two mediocre runnings doesn't downgrade a race of that kind of status and longevity.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Brooklyn has been a grade 2 for years.

I don't agree about the Carter at all and think you need to look at the fields overall again. One or two mediocre runnings doesn't downgrade a race of that kind of status and longevity.

Oops on the Brooklyn. Fair enough on the Carter (Bishop Court Hill winning was one thing; winning at 3-1 is another). By the same token and logic, just tossing a million bucks out and calling a race a Breeders Cup "championship" does not merit immediate or accelerated G 1 status.

I readily admit I am well beyond logic and reason when it comes to the BC and proliferation of diluted G 1 races.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Off the top of my head, a few that deserve to be looked at might include
-Carter
-Gulf PArk Breeders
-Del Mar Fut
-Del Mar Deb
-Brooklyn
-Hollywood Derby
-Oak Leaf

I'm tempted toss in the Cigar on the basis of Naughty New Yorker earning a G1 placing being just cause.

I'm not saying I personally would bump then down; I just can't see how they rationalize the need for a greater number of Grade 1 races.

The Gulfstream Park Breeders should definitely be the first one downgraded.

I don't agree with the others aside from the Brooklyn which is already G2.

The only reason to downgrade the Del Mar 2yo races is cause they are now irrelevant with the poly playing so different from the cushion.