Breeders' Cup Going for Grade 1's Again

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The issue I have with your 1st argument is that though I agree that Flashy Bull does not belong on a list of greats of the game he won a legit grade 1 race and he won it pretty easily. Sure the entire older horse division was crap this year but that does not mean we need to downgrade all the races. Determining the merits of a horse based upon his/her winning an single graded event and using the subsquent grade as evidence of those merits is a poor way of measuring ability. To say Horse A is a better horse than Horse B because he has a grade 1 win and horse B has a grade 2 win is an extremely simplistic and flawed way of looking at things. The fact is and remains that the grading system was meant as a tool for breeders and is flawed and arbitrary system. I guess the whole point is if it brings together a diverse group of horses from different areas of the country and world then why does any one care what the purse or grade is? And the truth is that the extra $750k would probably stay in the coffers of the BC where it does noone any good.

It may become the 1st leg of that series if it existed. How would that be a bad thing? It is like the all star snub argument. It seems like it is a story for a few days but in the end it blows over and only those directly affected remember. Only a few months ago the majority of people here were adamantly against a filly and mare sprint and I would say that the numbers on that have probably flipped. I agree with StS that the BC has ruined the fall racing season especially in NY but that is now something that is not going to change.

If the only thing stopping it from becoming the first leg of that series is getting G1 status then go ahead and announce it tomorrow as a G1 race. Until it becomes part of that series though it doesn't deserve anything more than G3 status and really has no need for a million dollar purse since the foreign horses won't come until it is in the series.

I was totally in favor of the FM Sprint from the beginning. I was in favor of all three from the beginning actually but now have soured at the prospect of the Dirt Mile going G1. I think there are even a few more races they could add (if they must add more) but a 10f turf race should definitely not be one of them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If the only thing stopping it from becoming the first leg of that series is getting G1 status then go ahead and announce it tomorrow as a G1 race. Until it becomes part of that series though it doesn't deserve anything more than G3 status and really has no need for a million dollar purse since the foreign horses won't come until it is in the series.

I was totally in favor of the FM Sprint from the beginning. I was in favor of all three from the beginning actually but now have soured at the prospect of the Dirt Mile going G1. I think there are even a few more races they could add (if they must add more) but a 10f turf race should definitely not be one of them.

I also dont understand why we necessaily are looking for more European competitors. Outside this year I dont remember the lack of Euros being an issue. I also think a 1 1/4 turf race would be overkill. The worst race and the worst idea is the idea of a dirt marathon. What kind of field would this race attract? The thought that that sort of race would keep horses in training or change breeding patterns is ludicrious.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I also dont understand why we necessaily are looking for more European competitors. Outside this year I dont remember the lack of Euros being an issue. I also think a 1 1/4 turf race would be overkill. The worst race and the worst idea is the idea of a dirt marathon. What kind of field would this race attract? The thought that that sort of race would keep horses in training or change breeding patterns is ludicrious.

If we aren't looking for foreign horses in a turf sprint then there is no reason for a purse over $250,000. The exact same American horses will show up either way. Spread that money elsewhere.

You mean there shouldn't be a million dollar race for Malibu Moonshine?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If we aren't looking for foreign horses in a turf sprint then there is no reason for a purse over $250,000. The exact same American horses will show up either way. Spread that money elsewhere.

You mean there shouldn't be a million dollar race for Malibu Moonshine?

Dont even joke about that....

[King Glorious]

I actually think that a dirt race at 12f would be a good thing. I know that for the first few years, it's going to be very hard to watch because we simply don't have that many horses that can run well at that distance anymore. But I think that if there is a BC race for them and if there were to be a series in place throughout the year, say 6-8 12f races with purses of $500k or more in each and a points bonus attatched to it, in a few years, there would be horses to fill these races. Today, there is no incentive to breed these kinds of horses because the races for them don't exist. But create a market for them and I think that more breeders would look to fill it.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I actually think that a dirt race at 12f would be a good thing. I know that for the first few years, it's going to be very hard to watch because we simply don't have that many horses that can run well at that distance anymore. But I think that if there is a BC race for them and if there were to be a series in place throughout the year, say 6-8 12f races with purses of $500k or more in each and a points bonus attatched to it, in a few years, there would be horses to fill these races. Today, there is no incentive to breed these kinds of horses because the races for them don't exist. But create a market for them and I think that more breeders would look to fill it.

And I think there should be world peace.

I'll take my hope happens before yours.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I actually think that a dirt race at 12f would be a good thing. I know that for the first few years, it's going to be very hard to watch because we simply don't have that many horses that can run well at that distance anymore. But I think that if there is a BC race for them and if there were to be a series in place throughout the year, say 6-8 12f races with purses of $500k or more in each and a points bonus attatched to it, in a few years, there would be horses to fill these races. Today, there is no incentive to breed these kinds of horses because the races for them don't exist. But create a market for them and I think that more breeders would look to fill it.

You dont create a market with 6 to 8 races regardless of the distance or purse. That kind of thinking shows little understanding of modern breeding practices. And the scary thing is that a lot of people are actually behind this idea. WHich is another reason why the sport rarely does anything right.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If we aren't looking for foreign horses in a turf sprint then there is no reason for a purse over $250,000. The exact same American horses will show up either way. Spread that money elsewhere.

Despite the negativity to the contrary, turf sprints are a staple of European , Australian and Asian racing. I find it hard to believe that a few of them wouldn't venture over. Personally I believe that the first couple races would draw alot of foreign interest as our turf sprinters are considered 2nd rate internationally chiefly because there are only a few graded races for them. There is no reason why we dont have a stronger turf sprint division. Everybody wrings their hands about so much overlapping of the same type of races drawing short fields but when we talk about creating a new division of races, pretty much from scratch, which can be properly placed throughout the calander with the BC as the final, legit championship race, all I hear is that turf spinters are too inferior to have their own race.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Despite the negativity to the contrary, turf sprints are a staple of European , Australian and Asian racing. I find it hard to believe that a few of them wouldn't venture over. Personally I believe that the first couple races would draw alot of foreign interest as our turf sprinters are considered 2nd rate internationally chiefly because there are only a few graded races for them. There is no reason why we dont have a stronger turf sprint division. Everybody wrings their hands about so much overlapping of the same type of races drawing short fields but when we talk about creating a new division of races, pretty much from scratch, which can be properly placed throughout the calander with the BC as the final, legit championship race, all I hear is that turf spinters are too inferior to have their own race.

If the shoe fits.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If the shoe fits.....

Too simplistic of an argument. There is no reason that we dont have a series of turf sprints ending with a BC race. No one said that the winner would be assigned to the Hall of Fame.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Too simplistic of an argument. There is no reason that we dont have a series of turf sprints ending with a BC race. No one said that the winner would be assigned to the Hall of Fame.

Apparantly you don't read all the threads.