Another NY trainer caught....

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by sumitas

The big thing to me is that a trainer not run an unsound horse. I support Dee Tee Stable, including Gary Sciacca running the NY string.

What do you think the milkshake was for, the horse was thirsty. The milkshake masks other drugs in the system, either performance enhancing drugs or drugs to relieve pain...either way your logic is flawed.

You can sort of argue when it comes to overrages, but milkshaking is just blatant cheating. The barn is a CHEATING BARN. It is that simple.

People that are his friends (some here obviously) defend him just like parents defend their children when they are on trial for killing someone. It is human nature. However, those on this board that will still use him and claim he knew nothing because he was on vacation, must think the rest of us are idiots.

The fact is the barn CHEATS. People who use barns that cheat help promote cheating. Nothing more to it than that. Those people that defend him now have absolutely ZERO credibility now when it comes to discussions on cheating in the sport. ZERO.


Sadly the biggest winners in the sport are the biggest cheaters. Just like in most sports. Horse racing is very close to joining the ranks of boxing because people continue to defend these cheaters.

[Fearless Leader]

[quote=Benevolus]

The fact is the barn CHEATS. People who use barns that cheat help promote cheating. Nothing more to it than that. Those people that defend him now have absolutely ZERO credibility now when it comes to discussions on cheating in the sport. ZERO.


QUOTE]



Could not possibly be said any clearer than that.

[The Bid]

BTW is right, the public should be outraged whenever any kind of drugging goes on. It should be a criminal offense. If these clowns faced punishment like people in the real world they wouldnt do it anymore.

Racing needs one governing body, and they need to take cheating serious. Snake Venom, Milk shaking, blocks/painkillers, all of that bullshit should land these guys in jail, off the grounds, and facing criminal charges.

If Chuck ran off to Cabo for a vacation do you think Cherie would be running around telling the vets to milkshake everything. It starts at the top, and it trickles down. The simple fact that Sciacca wasnt there just shows you how comfortable they were doing it.

The reason this game is stuck in the mud is because of its horrible reputation, something needs to be done

Originally Posted by The Bid

BTW is right, the public should be outraged whenever any kind of ging goes on. It should be a criminal offense. If these clowns faced punishment like people in the real world they wouldnt do it anymore.

Racing needs one governing body, and they need to take cheating serious. Snake Venom, Milk shaking, blocks/painkillers, all of that should land these guys in jail, off the grounds, and facing criminal charges.

If Chuck ran off to Cabo for a vacation do you think Cherie would be running around telling the vets to milkshake everything. It starts at the top, and it trickles down. The simple fact that Sciacca wasnt there just shows you how comfortable they were doing it.

The reason this game is stuck in the mud is because of its horrible reputation, something needs to be done

The really annoying thing about these guys cheating is they are screwing the gambler and the gambler is indirectly the guy who really pays their salary. It is almost like they have no respect for fairness to the guy gambling.

I don't have enough money to gamble a ton of money but I would not be happy if I lost a bunch of money when the horse I bet on ran 2nd to a cheater and then weeks later you find it out. The gambler still loses. It really hurts guys who spend thousand on pick 6's because they could lose out on a very big ticket due to one horse.

[The Bid]

Go into a bank and steal a thousand and see what happens. These guys are influencing a lot more money than a G when they cheat and they get a couple months off. PUHLEASE.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

There was once a time in the 90's when Sciacca was a top the Belmont standings with 30 wins - had a 26.1 win percentage from 115 starters with an avg win mutual of $14.30 for those 30 winners - and was a magical 21-for-56 (37.5% wins) with runners on the turf course.

Gasper Moschera was 2nd in the standings.

How times have changed!

[sumitas]

Thanks for the stats. The man has a solid training resume and I fully support Dee Tee Stable and Gary Sciacca. This one incident, clouded by over 4 years of time amidst differing accounts, should not define his entirety.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

There was once a time in the 90's when Sciacca was a top the Belmont standings with 30 wins - had a 26.1 win percentage from 115 starters with an avg win mutual of $14.30 for those 30 winners - and was a magical 21-for-56 (37.5% wins) with runners on the turf course.

Gasper Moschera was 2nd in the standings.

How times have changed!

Has he had 21 winners since?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

The really annoying thing about these guys cheating is they are screwing the gambler and the gambler is indirectly the guy who really pays their salary. It is almost like they have no respect for fairness to the guy gambling.

I don't have enough money to gamble a ton of money but I would not be happy if I lost a bunch of money when the horse I bet on ran 2nd to a cheater and then weeks later you find it out. The gambler still loses. It really hurts guys who spend thousand on pick 6's because they could lose out on a very big ticket due to one horse.

Actually the gambler is not being screwed nearly as much as the horsemen who compete against the cheater. I'm sure you have cashed many tickets on horses that may have been running with some sort of illegal substance in its system. I'm sure that I have not won any races with a horse with an illegal substance. (Actually once and it got me 15 days and I had to give back $4k)

Let me ask you this question. If 2 weeks later you found out you had cashed a ticket and made money on a cheater, would you give it back?

They may also benefit by hitting a big pick 6 by using a cheating horse. They still get to keep the money.

I am not condoning cheating but just pointing out the other side of the 'cheating the gamblers' argument.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

BTW is right, the public should be outraged whenever any kind of drugging goes on. It should be a criminal offense. If these clowns faced punishment like people in the real world they wouldnt do it anymore.

Racing needs one governing body, and they need to take cheating serious. Snake Venom, Milk shaking, blocks/painkillers, all of that bullshit should land these guys in jail, off the grounds, and facing criminal charges.

If Chuck ran off to Cabo for a vacation do you think Cherie would be running around telling the vets to milkshake everything. It starts at the top, and it trickles down. The simple fact that Sciacca wasnt there just shows you how comfortable they were doing it.

The reason this game is stuck in the mud is because of its horrible reputation, something needs to be done

This is not one of your better efforts.
1. You will have a hard time criminalizing most medication positives without illegal drugs (non FDA approved) being used. The charges against these guys of sports tampering were dropped for a reason.
2. The one governing body theory can not happen so why keep bringing it up?
3. I would never go to Cabo on vacation.
4. The reputation of the game wont change no matter how good the tests are or how harsh the penalities are. Do you realize that watching a race where 5 guys are cheating and one where no guys are cheating will look the same? If you dont agree you prove my first sentence.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

What do you think the milkshake was for, the horse was thirsty. The milkshake masks other drugs in the system, either performance enhancing drugs or drugs to relieve pain...either way your logic is flawed.

This is not true

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is not true

I have heard many opinions with facts as to why they do it, the who lactic acid reason just does not hold water to me based on the medical opinions I have heard....Some may use it for that reason but I believe masking drugs was the prevalent reason amongst bigger barns.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I have heard many opinions with facts as to why they do it, the who lactic acid reason just does not hold water to me based on the medical opinions I have heard....Some may use it for that reason but I believe masking drugs was the prevalent reason amongst bigger barns.

I believe you are thinking of the diuretic Lasix, not baking soda.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

I believe you are thinking of the diuretic Lasix, not baking soda.

Lasix doesnt help mask drugs either

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Lasix doesnt help mask drugs either

Agreed.

[BillW]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Lasix doesnt help mask drugs either

dihydrogen monoxide?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by BillW

dihydrogen monoxide?

Viagra?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by BillW

dihydrogen monoxide?

You have to be careful with that stuff! www.DHMO.org

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I have heard many opinions with facts as to why they do it, the who lactic acid reason just does not hold water to me based on the medical opinions I have heard....Some may use it for that reason but I believe masking drugs was the prevalent reason amongst bigger barns.

I'm not sure where you get your medical opinions but if baking soda and confectionary sugar can mask drugs then we can make a whole lot of money helping people pass drug tests. Hell we can make millions selling to PVal and a few baseball players alone.

By the way this is 2007, we are testing at the picogram level and the 'masking' of drugs is no longer really valid in almost all cases.