Another NY trainer caught....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wigmore

you have got to be kidding me...

why?

i'm serious. i would not cheat, and can't stand that others do. if you can't win something legitimately, wouldn't it bother you? it would me.

makes me want to throw up when i read 'future hall of famer asmussen'.

[wigmore]

maybe you truly are a saint but the rest of the world is not like that...

the joy of winning is in the things you can buy with the money you've stolen

[Payson Dave]

Call me cynical but money (be it from the purse or from the betting window) may be more of a motivating factor than "the joy of winning"....
IMHO Corruption thrives most in situations involving money or power...and either of these things can be used to get the other.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wigmore

maybe you truly are a saint but the rest of the world is not like that...

the joy of winning is in the things you can buy with the money you've stolen

lmao!!

i'll settle for buying all my toys with legit funds! i sleep just fine at night.

altho i don't think i'd qualify for sainthood, i do believe in honesty.

[The Bid]

PA, you should try the Aflutop as a sub. Its better than both, and much cheaper.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wigmore

maybe you truly are a saint but the rest of the world is not like that... the joy of winning is in the things you can buy with the money you've stolen

No, alot of the world is like that.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why?

i'm serious. i would not cheat, and can't stand that others do. if you can't win something legitimately, wouldn't it bother you? it would me.

makes me want to throw up when i read 'future hall of famer asmussen'.

What about current or future hall of famers like Pletcher, Zito and Mandella?
Where do you draw that line?

As long as there is competition for money, people will work the edges to gain an advantage. You break the rules and get caught, you get fined and/or suspended.

If you have a beef that the penalties are too soft, why not campaign to make them tougher?

To a great extent the furor over Dutrow is a joke. He's doing his days and paying his fine, isn't he? To say he's "different" is wrong. He's NO different than the others who get fined and suspended aside from perhaps not being an overly penitent person.

Dutrow, for his faults, can flat out train a racehorse. A year ago people would point at him and Allday and claim it was the vet who moved his horses up. Well, he fired the vet a year ago and is doing ok. And Allday, aside from his outburst, is still a great vet.

Dutrow took Kip DeVille over from a guy named Netherland and moved him up. That makes him a criminal? Good trainers move up horses. It's not a crime.

Chuck Simon moved up that filly up 15-20 lengths in a few months. He's a good trainer. That's what is supposed to happen when a good trainer with a sharp eye takes a young horse from an average-to-poor trainer. They often move up.

I'm curious to know if Allday has done any work with Sumoneluveyou?

[sumitas]

The big thing to me is that a trainer not run an unsound horse. I support Dee Tee Stable, including Gary Sciacca running the NY string.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by sumitas

The big thing to me is that a trainer not run an unsound horse. I support Dee Tee Stable, including Gary Sciacca running the NY string.

What do you think the milkshake was for, the horse was thirsty. The milkshake masks other drugs in the system, either performance enhancing drugs or drugs to relieve pain...either way your logic is flawed.

You can sort of argue when it comes to overrages, but milkshaking is just blatant cheating. The barn is a CHEATING BARN. It is that simple.

People that are his friends (some here obviously) defend him just like parents defend their children when they are on trial for killing someone. It is human nature. However, those on this board that will still use him and claim he knew nothing because he was on vacation, must think the rest of us are idiots.

The fact is the barn CHEATS. People who use barns that cheat help promote cheating. Nothing more to it than that. Those people that defend him now have absolutely ZERO credibility now when it comes to discussions on cheating in the sport. ZERO.


Sadly the biggest winners in the sport are the biggest cheaters. Just like in most sports. Horse racing is very close to joining the ranks of boxing because people continue to defend these cheaters.

[Fearless Leader]

[quote=Benevolus]

The fact is the barn CHEATS. People who use barns that cheat help promote cheating. Nothing more to it than that. Those people that defend him now have absolutely ZERO credibility now when it comes to discussions on cheating in the sport. ZERO.


QUOTE]



Could not possibly be said any clearer than that.

[The Bid]

BTW is right, the public should be outraged whenever any kind of drugging goes on. It should be a criminal offense. If these clowns faced punishment like people in the real world they wouldnt do it anymore.

Racing needs one governing body, and they need to take cheating serious. Snake Venom, Milk shaking, blocks/painkillers, all of that bullshit should land these guys in jail, off the grounds, and facing criminal charges.

If Chuck ran off to Cabo for a vacation do you think Cherie would be running around telling the vets to milkshake everything. It starts at the top, and it trickles down. The simple fact that Sciacca wasnt there just shows you how comfortable they were doing it.

The reason this game is stuck in the mud is because of its horrible reputation, something needs to be done

Originally Posted by The Bid

BTW is right, the public should be outraged whenever any kind of ging goes on. It should be a criminal offense. If these clowns faced punishment like people in the real world they wouldnt do it anymore.

Racing needs one governing body, and they need to take cheating serious. Snake Venom, Milk shaking, blocks/painkillers, all of that should land these guys in jail, off the grounds, and facing criminal charges.

If Chuck ran off to Cabo for a vacation do you think Cherie would be running around telling the vets to milkshake everything. It starts at the top, and it trickles down. The simple fact that Sciacca wasnt there just shows you how comfortable they were doing it.

The reason this game is stuck in the mud is because of its horrible reputation, something needs to be done

The really annoying thing about these guys cheating is they are screwing the gambler and the gambler is indirectly the guy who really pays their salary. It is almost like they have no respect for fairness to the guy gambling.

I don't have enough money to gamble a ton of money but I would not be happy if I lost a bunch of money when the horse I bet on ran 2nd to a cheater and then weeks later you find it out. The gambler still loses. It really hurts guys who spend thousand on pick 6's because they could lose out on a very big ticket due to one horse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

BTW is right, the public should be outraged whenever any kind of drugging goes on. It should be a criminal offense. If these clowns faced punishment like people in the real world they wouldnt do it anymore.

Racing needs one governing body, and they need to take cheating serious. Snake Venom, Milk shaking, blocks/painkillers, all of that bullshit should land these guys in jail, off the grounds, and facing criminal charges.

If Chuck ran off to Cabo for a vacation do you think Cherie would be running around telling the vets to milkshake everything. It starts at the top, and it trickles down. The simple fact that Sciacca wasnt there just shows you how comfortable they were doing it.

The reason this game is stuck in the mud is because of its horrible reputation, something needs to be done

This is not one of your better efforts.
1. You will have a hard time criminalizing most medication positives without illegal drugs (non FDA approved) being used. The charges against these guys of sports tampering were dropped for a reason.
2. The one governing body theory can not happen so why keep bringing it up?
3. I would never go to Cabo on vacation.
4. The reputation of the game wont change no matter how good the tests are or how harsh the penalities are. Do you realize that watching a race where 5 guys are cheating and one where no guys are cheating will look the same? If you dont agree you prove my first sentence.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

What do you think the milkshake was for, the horse was thirsty. The milkshake masks other drugs in the system, either performance enhancing drugs or drugs to relieve pain...either way your logic is flawed.

This is not true

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is not true

I have heard many opinions with facts as to why they do it, the who lactic acid reason just does not hold water to me based on the medical opinions I have heard....Some may use it for that reason but I believe masking drugs was the prevalent reason amongst bigger barns.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I have heard many opinions with facts as to why they do it, the who lactic acid reason just does not hold water to me based on the medical opinions I have heard....Some may use it for that reason but I believe masking drugs was the prevalent reason amongst bigger barns.

I believe you are thinking of the diuretic Lasix, not baking soda.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I have heard many opinions with facts as to why they do it, the who lactic acid reason just does not hold water to me based on the medical opinions I have heard....Some may use it for that reason but I believe masking drugs was the prevalent reason amongst bigger barns.

I'm not sure where you get your medical opinions but if baking soda and confectionary sugar can mask drugs then we can make a whole lot of money helping people pass drug tests. Hell we can make millions selling to PVal and a few baseball players alone.

By the way this is 2007, we are testing at the picogram level and the 'masking' of drugs is no longer really valid in almost all cases.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

What do you think the milkshake was for, the horse was thirsty. The milkshake masks other drugs in the system, either performance enhancing drugs or drugs to relieve pain...either way your logic is flawed.

You must have missed that day at vet school.

It is used to neutralize the effects of lactic acid, either in recovery from a race or workout, or to prevent the same prior to a race - it's measured in the level of CO2 in solution in the blood - obviously not to hard to catch

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

You must have missed that day at vet school.

It is used to neutralize the effects of lactic acid, either in recovery from a race or workout, or to prevent the same prior to a race - it's measured in the level of CO2 in solution in the blood - obviously not to hard to catch

dont buy it...though I suppose some used it for that....