Not again ....

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because there's no oversight. the industry polices itself, poorly.
asmussen is a mention for the eclipse for trainer. perfect example right there. 20-some drug positives, just came off a six month suspension, but everyone loves a winner, right? when's the last time anyone mentioned his six month 'vacation'? not since that big preakness win as far as i know...

You know, that's a very interesting point; very thought provoking.

Is it the industry's responsibility to police or govern itself? Is this the case in other sports? Rhetorical question, as this sport is very different than others. However, should it be the industry's responsibility to govern and police itself -- because the goeverning bodies can't?

Eric

[blackthroatedwind]

I find it interesting that the same trainers who have received both numerous and serious suspensions related to drug violations are also the same trainers whose horses often show dramatic improvement when said trainers take over their care.

It's probably just a coincidence.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I find it interesting that the same trainers who have received both numerous and serious suspensions related to drug violations are also the same trainers whose horses often show dramatic improvement when said trainers take over their care.

It's probably just a coincidence.

yes, there is likely no connection whatsoever.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

yes, there is likely no connection whatsoever.

I think what is telling is the CONSTANT movement. I mean if you move up 40% well then you are a good trainer, but when you are moving up 80%-90% of your claiming stock, it isn't hard to come to the assumptions that we are coming to.

It is like when Brady Anderson hit 50 HR's, everyone knew he was roiding, but Major League Baseball.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Scav

I think what is telling is the CONSTANT movement. I mean if you move up 40% well then you are a good trainer, but when you are moving up 80%-90% of your claiming stock, it isn't hard to come to the assumptions that we are coming to.

It is like when Brady Anderson hit 50 HR's, everyone knew he was roiding, but Major League Baseball.

Brady Anderson was roiding??? Here I thought he was the best leadoff batter in the history of leadoff batter. joking of course.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Scav

I think what is telling is the CONSTANT movement. I mean if you move up 40% well then you are a good trainer, but when you are moving up 80%-90% of your claiming stock, it isn't hard to come to the assumptions that we are coming to.

It is like when Brady Anderson hit 50 HR's, everyone knew he was roiding, but Major League Baseball.

Brady Anderson was roiding??? Here I thought he was the best leadoff batter in the history of leadoff batter. joking of course.

[blackthroatedwind]

You can say that again!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

Brady Anderson was roiding??? Here I thought he was the best leadoff batter in the history of leadoff batter. joking of course.

I can't wait until that list comes out. I bet you there is ZERO Cubs on it besides Sosa, which is why we have sucked for so long. Haven't had the GOOD STUFF!!!

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Scav

I can't wait until that list comes out. I bet you there is ZERO Cubs on it besides Sosa, which is why we have sucked for so long. Haven't had the GOOD STUFF!!!

Yeah, steroid use has really helped the Os.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I think what is telling is the CONSTANT movement. I mean if you move up 40% well then you are a good trainer, but when you are moving up 80%-90% of your claiming stock, it isn't hard to come to the assumptions that we are coming to.

It is like when Brady Anderson hit 50 HR's, everyone knew he was roiding, but Major League Baseball.

I saw Brady Anderson at the HOF this summer. Smoking wife...Chicks dig the long ball...

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I find it interesting that the same trainers who have received both numerous and serious suspensions related to drug violations are also the same trainers whose horses often show dramatic improvement when said trainers take over their care.

It's probably just a coincidence.

Yeah...and one of those horses won the 5th at the Big A today.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I find it interesting that the same trainers who have received both numerous and serious suspensions related to drug violations are also the same trainers whose horses often show dramatic improvement when said trainers take over their care.

It's probably just a coincidence.

i find it interesting that a guy who claims he's for integrity in the sport hired one of those trainers.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i find it interesting that a guy who claims he's for integrity in the sport hired one of those trainers.

Who?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who?

more like which one.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

more like which one.....

I'm an owl

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Your post just went clearly over my head.

mine too.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ELA

You know, that's a very interesting point; very thought provoking.

Is it the industry's responsibility to police or govern itself? Is this the case in other sports? Rhetorical question, as this sport is very different than others. However, should it be the industry's responsibility to govern and police itself -- because the goeverning bodies can't?

Eric

all major sports have a national governing body. racing does not. and that's a big part of the problem. we have a crazy quilt of states with their own rules and regs for racing. there should be national standards in place, and rules with real teeth in them for those who don't play by them.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Danzig

all major sports have a national governing body. racing does not. and that's a big part of the problem. we have a crazy quilt of states with their own rules and regs for racing. there should be national standards in place, and rules with real teeth in them for those who don't play by them.

Agreed. Without question. However, don't be surprised -- if it happens -- if all lines drawn don't end with the owner. I think a national governing body must, as you said, have the real bite behind the bark.

Standardbred racing doesn't have that either. But years ago, there was no reciprocity. Today there is. The reasons there is no national governing body are many, and complex, but hopefully that will change.

But I think there is also a thought process that must be looked at. I've asked it before -- is MLB going to hold Steinbrenner responsible for one or more of his players taking steroids? Is major league baseball going to look at his role if any, his involvement if any, his knowledge of the situation if any, and so on. Employer/employee relationship, and many more different elements of course.

Eric

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cardus

My apologies to everyone who participated in this thread, for I'm told that lidocaine is not a pain killer.

It is a nerve blocker, which means that no pain gets through, as opposed to a pain killer, which minimizes pain. No pain gets through, which makes a nerve blocker like lidocaine more powerful than a pain killer.

same family as mepivicain and cocaine...

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Cardus

My apologies to everyone who participated in this thread, for I'm told that lidocaine is not a pain killer.

It is a nerve blocker, which means that no pain gets through, as opposed to a pain killer, which minimizes pain. No pain gets through, which makes a nerve blocker like lidocaine more powerful than a pain killer.

You keep bringing this up, so I must assume you still have a gripe with Contessa "getting off easy".....

I hate the let the facts get in the way of a good rant, but again - I am aware of this particular trainer's record since mid 2005, Since then he has saddled over 3500 mounts and has had 1 Bute and 1 Lido overage to since - 2 out of 3500..... (approx 900 in 2005 since I got involved), ALL of last year (approx 1500), and 2 of 1100 this year = 3500....I DARE you to recollect ANYTHING that you do - especially considering work done out of out of your hands, out of your sight that you are responsible for, to that level of perfection.


Hard to imagine that anyone could consider 2 out of 3500 as "Numerous and Serious" and "Directly related to immediate improvement" but as long as someone has an axe to grind....It's a coincidence that's clearly over my head