Joe says no

[2 Dollar Bill]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Most likely the money they saved.....could go toward "A"-rod or the fellas in Tampa may give it to that "old man" Clemons....

shame on the Yankee brass! they handled the whole thing with Joe like CRAP!!!

"" Thats a Shame"" !

[Danzig]

now i see why so many enjoy rooting against the yankees. talk about badly handled, and made a crappy offer that was bound to be rejected.

[SentToStud]

Girardi is a bad fit. He couldn't get along with the bosses in Miami and he was against using a few of the many rookies that produced big in 2006. How's he going to do working for the people in NY.

Mattingly doesn't seem ready able or even willing.

They need a big name. LaRussa or Bobby Valentine is who they should go after.

[pdrift1]

as he should

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm sure I am in the minority here and this is no dig on Torre. But the bottom line for Steinbrenner is championship rings. Torre was far and away the highest paid manager and under the deal they offered, he still would have been. What is wrong with basing a cut on Steinbrenner or whoever's thought that Torre wasn't doing a good job?

I know everyone loves Torre, but it's not a personal thing. It's business. Steinbrenner spends all of that money for a ring. I realize you cannot buy a ring, but sometimes you just need a change to light a fire in some guys. Personally I think Cashman should be gone too. He's made some awful moves.

Torre's a players manager and you'll be hard pressed to find someone who has a bad thing to say about him. But sometimes change is necessary. This was definitely one of those times.

torre, 3 rings, post season 12 years in a row.
20 years prior--NO rings.

who didn't think halfway thru this season that the yanks would miss the playoffs for the first time in over a decade? i doubt anyone honestly thought that they could pull things together, and get to the post season.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Danzig

torre, 3 rings, post season 12 years in a row.
20 years prior--NO rings.

who didn't think halfway thru this season that the yanks would miss the playoffs for the first time in over a decade? i doubt anyone honestly thought that they could pull things together, and get to the post season.

Finally, words spoken by someone that appreciates what one has given to a job or team for many years...RESULTS!
I guess others just can't see that...too bad.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Hoff, do me a favor. Take your emotion out of this for a second. The guy did his job. He was given the best players a manager could ask for. It didn't work out. What did he deserve? What should they have done? Sometimes it's best to part ways.

It won't be for them.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

You know, I guess I'm "old fashion". A person deserves the upmost respect for doing a job, getting it right, showing results and with CLASS. Joe Torre has done that the past 12 years. NO ONE deserves to end a great career this way with a team or job. Life does sometime suck...things like this make it that way!

[pdrift1]

wait

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Again, Torre is a great guy. But if you were the Yankee brass, what would you have done? I'm just not sure what you wanted them to do. Offer him more money? What is your solution?

you wait it out because no manager is going to change that pitching staff that stinks. so you come to a understanding you have to rebuild and wait. mr steinbrenner should know by now you cant buy a ws. they need to bring up thier talent and wait

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Hoff, do me a favor. Take your emotion out of this for a second. The guy did his job. He was given the best players a manager could ask for. It didn't work out. What did he deserve? What should they have done? Sometimes it's best to part ways.

i still think this situation is akin to the chargers after their season ended prematurely last year. makes as much sense to do this. how much is enough, or not enough? the guy averaged a ring every three years, postseason 12 years in a row. those are really good results. yeah, everyone wants their team to win out, but how realistic is that to be a legitimate expectation?? and how can anyone think that running off torre, after a hell of a run, and going with someone new, is an improvement? or that they now have a shot to duplicate his successes in the next 12 years? with who? a big name alone won't do it.

i hope they get the baseball version of norv turner. that would be the ultimate end result.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i still think this situation is akin to the chargers after their season ended prematurely last year. makes as much sense to do this. how much is enough, or not enough? the guy averaged a ring every three years, postseason 12 years in a row. those are really good results. yeah, everyone wants their team to win out, but how realistic is that to be a legitimate expectation?? and how can anyone think that running off torre, after a hell of a run, and going with someone new, is an improvement? or that they now have a shot to duplicate his successes in the next 12 years? with who? a big name alone won't do it.

i hope they get the baseball version of norv turner. that would be the ultimate end result.

Football coaches are far more important than baseball managers. Systems win in football when you have the right players to execute them. Baseball managers can screw up the pitching staff and play the wrong guys but baseball strategy is overrated in comparison to football.

[Cannon Shell]

I happen to agree with Da Hoss. I think it is time for a change. Not because Torre did anything wrong but they need to retool and look ahead and I cant see him wanting to go in that direction. Of course Yankee management wont do this either and will most assuredly make a couple of Pavano like signings.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So when is the right time to part ways with Torre? Wait until they don't make the playoffs? I think that you could have inserted Pinella, Bobby Cox, Larussa into the last 12 seasons and you would have had similar results. Hell, the first ring was with Showalter's team. I still say they are as good and better next year with some fresh faces in there.

the yanks say they want a ring every year, which is pie in the sky.
the goal, i always felt, was to get to the postseason. he's done that more consistently than anyone i can think of--yet it's not enough. hey, lofty goals are great, but fantasy is far from reality.
i think after the tremendous run torre gave them that they could have done better by him.

i also think many thought favre was done, and that they needed to rebuild around a younger QB. certainly motivated brett, he's still good. i think the problem with guys like favre and torre is that they set the bar so high, they in turn fall short.

i don't think anyone could produce what torre has, his seasons with the yanks have been pretty damn good.
i just think it's laughable to think that RIGHT NOW, anyone could have done better, could have gotten the yanks to the post season this year, and could improve on it next year.

torre did it, pure speculation what that team would have done with another manager, but everyone knows what torre accomplished.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

The whole thing is speculation. But what would you have liked them to do? You think it's wrong, but offer up no solution.

Bobby Cox won 14 straight pennants. It can be done.

Don't you think that with the players Torre got that he SHOULD have been making the playoffs. I mean come on, the guy is blessed with a roster of future Hall of Famers. He won and should have. But they have been unable to get over that hump in the last few years. it was time for a change.

no solution? i think joe should have been able to stay, that's my solution.

as for the roster, for the 20 years preceding torres arrival, they didn't win jack. they had deep pockets then too, didn't they? i just think that torres twelve years were fine, i think steinbrenner is being unrealistic to expect a ring every year. hell, with joe, they averaged a ring every three years--not too shabby!
but, it's his team, he can do what he wants with it. and he has, so that's that.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

torre, 3 rings, post season 12 years in a row.
20 years prior--NO rings.

who didn't think halfway thru this season that the yanks would miss the playoffs for the first time in over a decade? i doubt anyone honestly thought that they could pull things together, and get to the post season.

Dannie...stick with boo-bees.

[Bigsmc]

Sweet Lou.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I know about what he has done, but obviously Steinbrenner is a what have you done for me lately kind of guy. His record of firing in the past sort of shows this.

I just think the backlash is because Torre is such a likeable guy. Where was the backlash when Girardi got fired last year? Talk about overachieving. If I'm Steinbrenner, and I spend the money he does to get a winner, I expect to go to the playoffs and beyond, every year. They should be making the playoffs every year. They have the best players money can buy.

Obviously they have to perform, but it's not like Torre has been burdened with trying to make a winner out of second rate players. He has a virtual all star team. IMO Torre is a bad X's and O's guy and his decision making is mediocre.

It will be a LONG time before the Yankees get back to the Joe Torre level. He got them to 12 straight playoff appearances for Chirst Sakes! As a YANKEE fan for over 30 years, I remember ALL those years they were bad! Joe was one in million...business or not, he deserved better than this!

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

It will be a LONG time before the Yankees get back to the Joe Torre level. He got them to 12 straight playoff appearances for Chirst Sakes! As a YANKEE fan for over 30 years, I remember ALL those years they were bad! Joe was one in million...business or not, he deserved better than this!

i agree-they will find that out starting next year, if arod-posada-rivera goes goodnight yanks

[pdrift1]

its not just torre but who might leave along because of him and wondering what whack will be the replacment. i'm telling ya the yanks might be a very average team come opening day after this winter