NYRA increases purses

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

As if horsemen don't have a hard enough time paying the bills, you're now proposing that NYRA should be charging owners and trainers for stalls at the track. Aside from Payson Park and Palm Meadows, please identify one other track that requires such payments.

There is a daily charge for stalls. I would have to check my last bill but it was something like $5oo for the 18 stalls i had for the saratoga meet..

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

There is a daily charge for stalls. I would have to check my last bill but it was something like $5oo for the 18 stalls i had for the saratoga meet..

Not NYRA stalls, during the Saratoga meet.

[Cannon Shell]

Listen you 2 simpletons. If you are going to argue your points at least get the story straight. NYRA declared Bankruptcy for 2 reasons. #1 is because under the current racing model they get to KEEP NO MONEY!!! Dont you understand that they are not allowed to keep any of the money they rightfully earned from their cut of the handle. It after expenses it all goes to the state. Obviously the laws which were written in a different era are no longer reasonable but fools keep saying "NYRA is broke!!!"
Reason #2 was to go in front of a federal judge who would almost certainly rule that NYRA is the rightful owner of the land which forces the Govenors hand. If he does not help them and the courts rule in NYRA's favor concerning the land, then there is no awarding of anything and NYRA can sell off land, pay off creditors and the state is loses the biggest battle of all, the land ownership deal.

As for NYRA and the HK jockey club being in competition....are you serious?

[sumitas]

Since when is horse racing supposed to be a capitalist model like McDonalds ? Or even the NFL? (lotsa cometition there). Folks, either the profits go back to NYS and a LARGE chunk to horsemen or the profits go out of state never to be seen again. I can hear the sucking sound allready. Right on Cannon Shell.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Listen you 2 simpletons. If you are going to argue your points at least get the story straight. NYRA declared Bankruptcy for 2 reasons. #1 is because under the current racing they get to KEEP NO MONEY!!! Dont you understand that they are not allowed to keep any of the money they rightfully earned from their cut of the handle. It after expenses it all goes to the state. Obviously the laws which were written in a different era are no longer reasonable but fools keep saying "NYRA is broke!!!"
Reason #2 was to go in front of a federal judge who would almost certainly rule that NYRA is the rightful owner of the land which forces the Govenors hand. If he does not help them and the courts rule in NYRA's favor concerning the land, then there is no awarding of anything and NYRA can sell off land, pay off creditors and the state is loses the biggest battle of all, the land ownership deal.

As for NYRA and the HK jockey club being in competition....are you serious?

Calling people simpletons and saying neighborhoods are dumps is not something a guy winning 13% of his races and maybe $150K in purses for an entire year should be doing. Are you jockeying for a job with NYRA once the training career is over, which might be pretty soon? LOL

So you want to say NYRA "rightfully earned" money but then you want them to be a non-profit? Hilarious. Why not just include $100 steak dinners everynight and pay the board members shipping costs of their horses. This way they will insure they are a non-profit. Wait, they already do that. LOL

Please explain to me what NYRA does with the million it gets when it sells the land? No land=No racing=no NYRA. NYRA CAN'T EXIST WITHOUT RACING. Is that too difficult for you to understand or do you have to be a simpleton like us to get it?

You want no accountability for NYRA. I guess you want no accountability from racehorse trainers to their owners too. Although you seem to already have that. LOL

[viscount26]

[quote=Benevolus]Calling people simpletons and saying neighborhoods are dumps is not something a guy winning 13% of his races and maybe $150K in purses for an entire year should be doing. Are you jockeying for a job with NYRA once the training career is over, which might be pretty soon? LOL

Spoken like the jerk that you are

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Calling people simpletons and saying neighborhoods are dumps is not something a guy winning 13% of his races and maybe $150K in purses for an entire year should be doing. Are you jockeying for a job with NYRA once the training career is over, which might be pretty soon? LOL

So you want to say NYRA "rightfully earned" money but then you want them to be a non-profit? Hilarious. Why not just include $100 steak dinners everynight and pay the board members shipping costs of their horses. This way they will insure they are a non-profit. Wait, they already do that. LOL

Please explain to me what NYRA does with the million it gets when it sells the land? No land=No racing=no NYRA. NYRA CAN'T EXIST WITHOUT RACING. Is that too difficult for you to understand or do you have to be a simpleton like us to get it?

You want no accountability for NYRA. I guess you want no accountability from racehorse trainers to their owners too. Although you seem to already have that. LOL

Only a fool would take what NY politicians say at face value like you seem to do. I find it amusing that you attempt to denigrate me professionally at every chance yet are insulted when I call you what you are.

The board members got their horses shipped for free because everyone got free shipping on the NYRA shuttle. If you ship from Aqu to Belmont or vice versa to run in a race you went on the NYRA shuttle which was for everyone. It is not a unique situation as Calder to Gulfstream and Churchill to Arlington and Churchill to Keeneland have similar set ups. If you are stupid enough to think that any of the board members are serving to get free stall rent, shuttle service or $100 steak dinners you are a simpleton.

You want NYRA to "clean up the community" and renovate but how are they supposed to do that if the state cleans them out at every chance.

I'm not sure why YOU are so personally against NYRA but if they are so bad then who do you propose run the tracks in NY?

[sumitas]

Now here's the link for the bidders on the casino side. Note that Excelsior and Empire did not even submit any interest in running the casinos...
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41368

"earth to Joe, earth to Joe...come in please...ummm, while you were gone NYRA has been awarded the racing franchise...now try to figure out how the casino side will be run...earth to Joe...are you there ?"

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Calling people simpletons and saying neighborhoods are dumps is not something a guy winning 13% of his races and maybe $150K in purses for an entire year should be doing. Are you jockeying for a job with NYRA once the training career is over, which might be pretty soon? LOL

So you want to say NYRA "rightfully earned" money but then you want them to be a non-profit? Hilarious. Why not just include $100 steak dinners everynight and pay the board members shipping costs of their horses. This way they will insure they are a non-profit. Wait, they already do that. LOL

Please explain to me what NYRA does with the million it gets when it sells the land? No land=No racing=no NYRA. NYRA CAN'T EXIST WITHOUT RACING. Is that too difficult for you to understand or do you have to be a simpleton like us to get it?

You want no accountability for NYRA. I guess you want no accountability from racehorse trainers to their owners too. Although you seem to already have that. LOL

why not? what has one part of your sentence got to do with the other?
i agree with viscount, you are a jerk.

jerk.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why not? what has one part of your sentence got to do with the other?
i agree with viscount, you are a jerk.

jerk.

Yeah, I'm winning at a 0% clip but doesn't mean until he can come up with a good alternative to the NYRA and is just senselessly bashing them I can't say he's a simpleton.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Yeah, I'm winning at a 0% clip but doesn't mean until he can come up with a good alternative to the NYRA and is just senselessly bashing them I can't say he's a simpleton.

and i don't even CARRY a purse, certainly haven't won one.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Listen you 2 simpletons. If you are going to argue your points at least get the story straight. NYRA declared Bankruptcy for 2 reasons. #1 is because under the current racing model they get to KEEP NO MONEY!!! Dont you understand that they are not allowed to keep any of the money they rightfully earned from their cut of the handle. It after expenses it all goes to the state. Obviously the laws which were written in a different era are no longer reasonable but fools keep saying "NYRA is broke!!!"
Reason #2 was to go in front of a federal judge who would almost certainly rule that NYRA is the rightful owner of the land which forces the Govenors hand. If he does not help them and the courts rule in NYRA's favor concerning the land, then there is no awarding of anything and NYRA can sell off land, pay off creditors and the state is loses the biggest battle of all, the land ownership deal.

As for NYRA and the HK jockey club being in competition....are you serious?

1) NYRA they don't earn they are a NON profit DING DONG. Hence of course they don't keep money(although in the past they just stole it).. The whole point of a Non Profit is not to earn but to distribute..You can't make this crap up?

2) BTW Cannon Ball at best it was 50/50 that a judge may have ruled NYRA was the owner of the land.. And why the F to the taxpayers have to bank role NYRA's potentially flawed quest? So now they can spend as much as they want to fight any crusade they choose says who Wilke Farr and Gallagher?

3) Becareful who you call a simpleton especially when you don't know who you are talking to. I may be nuts but I am far from stupid. Maybe my man BENE has a point perhaps you could focus a bit more on what you haven't been as successful as others have been. I may sell pens and tees but at least I sell a fn lot of them and help 200 hard working people earn a living.

[SentToStud]

To me, people are down on NYRA because there's nothing tremendously different about the how they operate vs a couple years ago when all the **** went down.

In the end, two mutel clerks were found guilty. One paid $5,000 in restitution and the other got 2-3 years probation.

In the meantime, Barry Schwartz, who was CEO of NYRA when a contract worth $750,000 was no-bid awarded to his daughter and son-in-law was allowed to just walk away instead of being indicted for fraud.

$750,000/$5000 = 150. Schwartz's "indiscretion" was 150 times, in dollars, worse than the mutuel clerk's. Yet he was able to retreat to his 600 acre farm and maintain his place in the ownership and breeding industry in NY.

When you have this kind of blatant and unpunished malfeasance occur at the top of a non-profit organization, people are going to want change. Supporters of NYRA can point to all the staff and oversight changes made since but with this kind of recent history as well as poor financial results, nobody can be surprised that people are distrustful and want change.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

To me, people are down on NYRA because there's nothing tremendously different about the how they operate vs a couple years ago when all the **** went down.

In the end, two mutel clerks were found guilty. One paid $5,000 in restitution and the other got 2-3 years probation.

In the meantime, Barry Schwartz, who was CEO of NYRA when a contract worth $750,000 was no-bid awarded to his daughter and son-in-law was allowed to just walk away instead of being indicted for fraud.

$750,000/$5000 = 150. Schwartz's "indiscretion" was 150 times, in dollars, worse than the mutuel clerk's. Yet he was able to retreat to his 600 acre farm and maintain his place in the ownership and breeding industry in NY.

When you have this kind of blatant and unpunished malfeasance occur at the top of a non-profit organization, people are going to want change. Supporters of NYRA can point to all the staff and oversight changes made since but with this kind of recent history as well as poor financial results, nobody can be surprised that people are distrustful and want change.

Look that makes way too much sense Studly obviously you are just pissed at NYRA because they dont buy your sperm..lol

The way it works is you tell everyone those were bad people who did bad things but you now have good people who do good things and all is forgiven because you came to jesus and confessed your past sins. Imagine a couple of Jewish boys are steering the ship from the second deck while the capt. smiles and perks them out. All because they lost their front man to HK..

I kind of like the new plan.. But the whole thing on an auction block and hawk it like livestock. What's so special about horse racing anyway and why do we need a bunch of care takers.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look that makes way too much sense Studly obviously you are just pissed at NYRA because they dont buy your sperm..lol

The way it works is you tell everyone those were bad people who did bad things but you now have good people who do good things and all is forgiven because you came to jesus and confessed your past sins. Imagine a couple of Jewish boys are steering the ship from the second deck while the capt. smiles and perks them out. All because they lost their front man to HK..

I kind of like the new plan.. But the whole thing on an auction block and hawk it like livestock. What's so special about horse racing anyway and why do we need a bunch of care takers.

It's a clusterf@#k there at NYRA/NY State for sure. And it's probably not going to change. Folks can bluster about things like Magna and CDI falling off the screen but, to me, when Kirkorian (MGM) loses interest that means there's probably no money to be made or at least not fast enough to justify the expense.

As far as Nader leaving, that's always an issue with non-profits... trying to compete for good people. He was there a long time, 10+ years I believe.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

To me, people are down on NYRA because there's nothing tremendously different about the how they operate vs a couple years ago when all the **** went down.

In the end, two mutel clerks were found guilty. One paid $5,000 in restitution and the other got 2-3 years probation.

In the meantime, Barry Schwartz, who was CEO of NYRA when a contract worth $750,000 was no-bid awarded to his daughter and son-in-law was allowed to just walk away instead of being indicted for fraud.

$750,000/$5000 = 150. Schwartz's "indiscretion" was 150 times, in dollars, worse than the mutuel clerk's. Yet he was able to retreat to his 600 acre farm and maintain his place in the ownership and breeding industry in NY.

When you have this kind of blatant and unpunished malfeasance occur at the top of a non-profit organization, people are going to want change. Supporters of NYRA can point to all the staff and oversight changes made since but with this kind of recent history as well as poor financial results, nobody can be surprised that people are distrustful and want change.

The ad agency that received that contract for marketing Saratoga was widely applauded for their work and generally credited for the large attendence jump at the Spa in the late 90's/early 00's.. Or does the result of the work not make a difference?

And it certainly didn't involve malfeasance given there is no obligation on NYRA to put work like that out to bid. There was nothing illegal about giving the assignment to his son in law's agency. Nepotism maybe, but not malfeasant.

You want to punish malfeasance? Go after the Albany Legislature phonies who pushed to have their cars serviced by the NYRA mechanics and filled their gas tanks at the pumps at the backstretch garage. Or were siphoning wood and work off the NYRA teet by making carpenters build porches at their summer cottages...

You're goring the wrong ox.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The ad agency that received that contract for marketing Saratoga was widely applauded for their work and generally credited for the large attendence jump at the Spa in the late 90's/early 00's.. Or does the result of the work not make a difference?

And it certainly didn't involve malfeasance given there is no obligation on NYRA to put work like that out to bid. There was nothing illegal about giving the assignment to his son in law's agency. Nepotism maybe, but not malfeasant.

You want to punish malfeasance? Go after the Albany Legislature phonies who pushed to have their cars serviced by the NYRA mechanics and filled their gas tanks at the pumps at the backstretch garage. Or were siphoning wood and work off the NYRA teet by making carpenters build porches at their summer cottages...

You're goring the wrong ox.

I'm no expert and certainly I have gored the odd wrong ox many a time in my day. My point of view is as a fan of a sport I like and since 1 out of every 5 or 6 dollars wagered in the U.S. is on nyra races, the subject is of some interest to me. It is not as if nyra is going away. Bit there ARE reasons that actions furthering nyra are viewed with a jaundiced eye.

I'm not sure how the awarding of the deal to Schwart's family without going through bid does not constitute violation of the Racing and Breeding law. Sec 213.5.a reads like this:

"All contracts entered into by a non-profit racing association for the procurement of goods or services of a value in excess of two hundred fifty thousand dollars shall be awarded only by a process of competitive bidding approved by the board."

In fairness, the next pp does list two exemptions to the comp bidding requirement, specifically "sole source" and "Emergency" exemptions. In my readings, I didn't come across any reference an exemptiom related to the Schwartz family deal.

In addition to the NY Racing law, nyra's own policy guidelines require certain competitive bidding actions and also make specific reference to "related third-party" dealings.

If, as you say, Schwartz, et al were somehow unencumbered by these requirements, so be it. But the fact that this no-bid deal was cited in the Deferred Prosecution Agreement is probably enough to cause a lot of folks to have a negative view, notwithstanding the fact that the results of the work were arguably admirable.

As far as nyra being a non-profit and some of the comments I've read about cost control and positive financial results having less importance than in for-profit models, that's a bunch of hogwash (oxen-wash?) I spent 20+ years working for a mutual insurance carrier and the model is similar to a non-profit... you are supposed to make money. It's not called profit but instead is referred to as "contribution to surplus." Some is used to grow the business but much is returned to certain policyholders as a dividend. NYRA should be run no differently.

I'm just a guy who is a fan and my only point is that public-trust entities have a very difficult time overcoming acts of impropriety and, more importantly, acts of perceived impropriety. I just hope things are run better there in the future. Most important, all of this slot-machine stuff is just awful for the sport. The life cycle of slots producing positive results for racing is going to be very, very short. At most, the positive results will last 10 years (Mountaineer) but more likely 10 weeks (Gulfstream).

And, yes, the state employees lining up for free car washes, etc.. should be punished.

I must hit the road. There's a herd of ox I've identified I need to pursue out on Alligator Alley.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

1) NYRA they don't earn they are a NON profit DING DONG. Hence of course they don't keep money(although in the past they just stole it).. The whole point of a Non Profit is not to earn but to distribute..You can't make this crap up?

2) BTW Cannon Ball at best it was 50/50 that a judge may have ruled NYRA was the owner of the land.. And why the F to the taxpayers have to bank role NYRA's potentially flawed quest? So now they can spend as much as they want to fight any crusade they choose says who Wilke Farr and Gallagher?

3) Becareful who you call a simpleton especially when you don't know who you are talking to. I may be nuts but I am far from stupid. Maybe my man BENE has a point perhaps you could focus a bit more on what you haven't been as successful as others have been. I may sell pens and tees but at least I sell a fn lot of them and help 200 hard working people earn a living.

1. It is impossible for any business, including non profits, to operate without sufficent operating capital. A lot of non profits keep a lot of the profits. Dont think so? Look into the financial records available on some of the 'charitable' non profits out there.
2. The Gov sure seemed to think that the %'s were greater than 50/50. And the taxpayers of NY are screwed either way and if you live in NY and dont get this...
3. I find it amusing people are so fascinated by my career. I am successful enough to buy 1/2 a million dollars worth of horses with my signature. I have done enough to warrant purchasing a 100 acre farm with $400000 worth of equipment. Of course I only employ 15 people but none of them work in sweatshops like your 200. Bene is almost assuredly living off his meager NYRA pension.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

3. I find it amusing people are so fascinated by my career. I am successful enough to buy 1/2 a million dollars worth of horses with my signature. I have done enough to warrant purchasing a 100 acre farm with $400000 worth of equipment. Of course I only employ 15 people but none of them work in sweatshops like your 200. Bene is almost assuredly living off his meager NYRA pension.

Cheap shots by those who dont have one.
Its so easy when a poster can look up public records.
Its much easier to be a critic than a builder.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Cheap shots by those who dont have one.
Its so easy when a poster can look up public records.
Its much easier to be a critic than a builder.

Thank you for your support. I dont care what Morty says about you. And I'll forgive your unusual fascination of my relatives...