Final Verdict ... Fog Is A Fraud

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I never thought he should have been champion sprinter last year either. But, I also don't know who should have gotten it. Do you, because people here say that he shouldn't, yet offer no solution.

Sorry, Hoss ... you must have missed the posts on this thread where I proposed the solution ... that is ...

... that the Eclipse Sprint Award should have been vacated ... that is ... no champion named.

There are years when that's the best solution ... and I argued for it all last Fall. The champion in any division should be a horse who raced well over a substantial portion of the year ... AND ... who somehow demonstrated a reasonably clear superiority to his rivals.

There wasn't an American sprinter last year ... who deserved to carry the glorious word "champion" for all eternity.

Giving it to a horse who may not have even been in the top 10 ... debased the whole meaning of the Eclipse Award.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Sorry, Hoss ... you must have missed the posts on this thread where I proposed the solution ... that is ...

... that the Eclipse Sprint Award should have been vacated ... that is ... no champion named.

There are years when that's the best solution ... and I argued for it all last Fall. The champion in any division should be a horse who raced well over a substantial portion of the year ... AND ... who somehow demonstrated a reasonably clear superiority to his rivals.

There wasn't an American sprinter last year ... who deserved to carry the glorious word "champion" for all eternity.

Giving it to a horse who may not have even been in the top 10 ... debased the whole meaning of the Eclipse Award.

I think that's pretty silly. It's probably less than 50% of the time that there is a clear and obvious winner who demonstrated reasonably clear superiority over their rivals. If we adopted your idea, we would have no winner in half the divisions every year.
Your contention that LITF was not in the Top 10 is absurd. He finished 7th in the BC Sprint. How is not in the Top 10 if he finished 7th in the championship race. If hed terrible Form before the race and finished 7th, you could argue that he wasn't in the Top 10. However, he had great Form going in and was the #1 seed going in. He went off as the odds-on 3-5 favorite that day. Let's say that the fans made a huge mistake in their handicapping and he should have been 5-1 instead of 3-5. That would still put him in at least the Top 7 best sprinters(since he finished 7th) and probably the Top 4 or 5 based on his previous Form. You can't tell me that LITF should have been 40-1 that day. I see fans make mistakes all the time, but I've never seen a horse who should be 40-1 go off at 3-5. If they made mistakes that big you could make millions betting the horses.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah but it's impossible, won't happen, and obviously didn't. There has to be a winner, if there is no winner it sort of defeats the whole purpose of having the award. Some trainers plan their whole year around getting the eclipse, so to not give one out because Bold Brooklynite doesn't think anyone deserved it isn't going to fly. I'm suprised no one involved with the eclipse awards listenened to your arguement last fall.

No ... there doesn't HAVE to be a winner. Vacating the award only strengthens the purpose of the award ... which is to honor the best horse in a division as a "champion."

No sprinter deserved that acclamation last year ... it cheapened the whole meaning of the Eclipse Awards.

And it doesn't matter at all what I think ... the voters should have the option of checking a box which says "No champion" ... and let that be the determinant.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It's your opinion that no one deserved the award ...

As I said ... my opinion doesn't count ...

... the Eclipse voters should have the option of checking "No champion" ... and let those votes be determinative.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well I disagree. His record earned him that award plain and simple. But this is useless, it's been fun Bold, I'm sure we'll argue again, from your other posts I see you seem to enjoy it. Good Luck.

What? Me? Enjoy arguing?

Why ... why ... surely you have me confused with someone else.

[Danzig]

went back to this to see how it all ended....over 300 posts, and still remained a relatively clean argument! fantastic. good to see there can be a long (too long??) discussion that stays on topic....

something struck me tho, late in the thread, where someone questioned litf winning the award without beating open company. reminded me of all the posts about azeri getting hoty without facing males. just goes to show you that in any given year, a horse can win without meeting certain criteria that some feel should be met. there will always be 'weak' years for some divisions. consider HOY last year, ghostzapper was in the running based on one race!

Originally Posted by Danzig188

went back to this to see how it all ended....over 300 posts, and still remained a relatively clean argument! fantastic. good to see there can be a long (too long??) discussion that stays on topic....

something struck me tho, late in the thread, where someone questioned litf winning the award without beating open company. reminded me of all the posts about azeri getting hoty without facing males. just goes to show you that in any given year, a horse can win without meeting certain criteria that some feel should be met. there will always be 'weak' years for some divisions. consider HOY last year, ghostzapper was in the running based on one race!

There are some years when HOTY should be vacated as well ...

... for instance ... can you say "Favorite Trick'?

He was a nice colt ... but should he really have gotten the sport's highest award ... just for defeating Good And Tough, Dawson's Legacy, Time Limit, K.O. Punch, Case Dismissed, Dice Dancer, Nationalore, Laydown, Jess M ... and various other completely-forgotten who-theys?

Even Lost In The Fog beat better competition than that.

[Danzig]

of course there are also years when there should have been two awards for HOY--personal ensign should have gotten it at four, and if not for alysheba she would have! undefeated champ who beat that years champ male sprinter,gulch.