George Carlin on Education and the owners of America

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It's a lot more like what George said than like what PGRDN said.Unless your very high tech,your screwed when you work for somebody else.It's all set up for business owners.They get to pay as little as possible,and then the gov't taxes the worker on that shitty pay.Then when he struggles,they tell him to get a "better" job.This was the job that was supposed to be "good."Meanwhile,the business owner gets to write off the cost of his 2 cars etc. etc. on his taxes,and then starts telling the worker that he now has to take another 8th of his wages for the medical coverage.See,that's a new one.Businesses used to pay the medical,but now it's somehow more and more on the worker.The "somehow" is because it's designed for them(the owners.) So,don't work for somebody else. It's not set up to work for you that way.The exception is working like PGRDN does(for a school district etc. that isn't out to make a profit.) He isn't getting ripped off,and so he thinks others get a fair deal(they don't.)Capitalism is set up for people to be able to capitalize off of the poor position of other people.That's the part of Carlin that's right,and PGRDN is right about owning a business.

i pay for everything else, but someone else should pay for my medical insurance? i think that's where things get a bit twisted. for some reason, medical care is suddenly someone else's responsibility? i keep hearing about the 47 million without health insurance, but i wonder how many of them turned down available coverage. i see it every day where i work. oh, i don't need that, i never get sick. oh, i don't want to pay that portion. so then everyone else on coverage pays a higher rate than they would if more people got in. then when the rube who turned down coverage needs it, well it's someone else's fault he didn't have it.

[Mortimer]

Monster!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Monster!!

grrrrrr

[Mortimer]

Hossy!!!






Help Me!

[Danzig]

that's it?! pfffft

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It was pretty weak, I agree. I'm tired. I won't always be though..... (evil laugh)

It's the thought that counts.




I got a thorn in my paw and it got infected.

The Forest Fairy Princess pulled it out.






I told her..."Hey..that ain't the thorn...but I already feel better!!









So if you think YOU'RE tired........

I'm in a fantastic mood today. I just got a check for thirty-six hundo in the mail!

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Mind sharing that princess with a fellow predator?

!!!!




Why...no...not at all.




But be patient...I just put...I mean somehow got a thorn in my other 3 paws.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i pay for everything else, but someone else should pay for my medical insurance? i think that's where things get a bit twisted. for some reason, medical care is suddenly someone else's responsibility? i keep hearing about the 47 million without health insurance, but i wonder how many of them turned down available coverage. i see it every day where i work. oh, i don't need that, i never get sick. oh, i don't want to pay that portion. so then everyone else on coverage pays a higher rate than they would if more people got in. then when the rube who turned down coverage needs it, well it's someone else's fault he didn't have it.

We will never agree on this.To me,healthcare is no different than fire protection, or police protection.Then add to that a good military,and a good educational system.Obviously the majority of Americans want healthcare to be based on how much wealth somebody has.Notice how we don't fight about the cost it takes to put out a poor person's fire? We have accepted that as a shared risk,but we don't want to accept shared risk with healthcare.We took the profit out of fighting fires.People aren't looking to make more and more money off the next fire that pops up.Healthcare needs to be more like that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

We will never agree on this.To me,healthcare is no different than fire protection, or police protection.Then add to that a good military,and a good educational system.Obviously the majority of Americans want healthcare to be based on how much wealth somebody has.Notice how we don't fight about the cost it takes to put out a poor person's fire? We have accepted that as a shared risk,but we don't want to accept shared risk with healthcare.We took the profit out of fighting fires.People aren't looking to make more and more money off the next fire that pops up.Healthcare needs to be more like that.

it's funny you mention fire protection, i have to pay out for that every year, as i'm in a rural area, and mostly volunteers. if i don't pay dues, and have a fire, it's ten times the amount after they answer. and of course my home owners ins would also be a lot more.
but, you could also equate health ins to car ins, every one has to have that as well. but we all pay our own.
the problem regarding health ins is that people don't have to have it, then they hold out their hand if they have an illness. i don't think most people realize how much of an effect one illness or injury can have on you. it can be catastrophic. but so many choose not to get it, and then find too late they needed it. my secretary chose not to get it, she's facing hefty bills as a result because she suffered a mild stroke.
arkids here covers a lot of children not covered federally. we have systems to cover the needy. i think part of the problem is those who aren't really needy, but choose not to be covered.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

No,I would not equate car insurance to health care insurance coverage.See,this is the problem(people don't separate a necessity from a minor luxury.)That's a big problem.We put all these things together...health insurance,car insurance,home owners insurance etc.etc....That's why we are so willing to accept the fact that people don't have health insurance..."They spent the money on something else." That makes it really easy to rationalize (and accept) that people don't have medical coverage.Americans are so competitive with others that they don't ever establish a definite idea about what necessities are needed by human beings.Cars(and car insurance) are not necessities for living.There are buses,and subways.If you live in the country,and couldn't get to work without a car,then what would you do? Get a job in another place.One which you could use public transportation to get to.Healthcare should not be thought of in the way you described it(one of many possible things you can spend your money on.) It's a necessity.It should be paid for in taxes like we pay for fire,police,military,and public education.Other countries know this.We are unique in having this idea that health coverage should be linked to personal wealth,or circumstance.I AM NOT talking about perfect medical care.I am talking about what you described(treatment for strokes,and other common treatable conditions) routine surgeries etc. Nurse practitioners can do the great majority of what we think doctors have to do.We have made the term "doctor" equivalent to a minor rock star,and it results in our healthcare dollars going to pay for the expensive toys doctors play with in their free time.The lawsuits got to go.We need a few good doctors(who want to do it because they enjoy it,)and a lot fewer lawyers.Too many people are trying to make huge money off of people's illnesses. That's why we have so many uninsured(we are spending the funds on expensive cars ETC. for DOCTORS AND LAWYERS.)If we stopped doing that,then everybody could be insured properly.

[Danzig]

i don't pretend to know the answer on how to fix the problem. i know there is one, and the current way of doing things isn't working. but i don't think the answer is for the govt to take it over. with the rampant fraud and waste they already have in other programs, the beauracracy involved in every facet of govt, i just don't think that would be a solution-i think it would just be another bad way of handling something.
the problem begins with people failing to recognize that health ins is a must-have. but how do you force people to apply for the coverage offered at work? you can't.
but then those same people find they need it, too late. then they have a mound of bills (that they wouldn't have had they gotten the offered insurance), and that they can't pay. so those of us who do have insurance pay higher premiums and our ins co's pay outrageous bills, and we pay the deductibles and copays, because we are also paying for all those who don't/won't/can't.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't pretend to know the answer on how to fix the problem. i know there is one, and the current way of doing things isn't working. but i don't think the answer is for the govt to take it over. with the rampant fraud and waste they already have in other programs, the beauracracy involved in every facet of govt, i just don't think that would be a solution-i think it would just be another bad way of handling something.
the problem begins with people failing to recognize that health ins is a must-have. but how do you force people to apply for the coverage offered at work? you can't.
but then those same people find they need it, too late. then they have a mound of bills (that they wouldn't have had they gotten the offered insurance), and that they can't pay. so those of us who do have insurance pay higher premiums and our ins co's pay outrageous bills, and we pay the deductibles and copays, because we are also paying for all those who don't/won't/can't.

LOL..You can't do worse than what we now have for a healthcare system.We spend a lot more on it than other countries do,and we get much less(because lawyers,insurance company CEOS, and some types of doctors are ripping everybody off.) There are some things in society where a service needs to be provided without somebody trying to make a fortune.

1)fire protection

2)police

3)military

4)education

5)healthcare

You can add energy(#6) to that,too.Countries who have it run by state run companies are getting much better services than the private energy companies here.They've just butchered the typical American(along with politicians like Bush helping them.)Energy is too important to allow C.E.O. S TO GET 400 MILIION A YEAR,AND companies pocketing 10 billion a quarter.That money should be going right into healthcare,education ,military etc. Enron raped California (with BUSH' help) back in 2001.You can't do worse than this monoploy.Private industry does a very poor job(just screws everybody as much as they can get away with) with the 6 things mentioned above.They are too important to have pigs at the trough ripping everybody off.That's exactly what oil and energy companies have done(rip Americans off.) The Government does a good job running the 4 (out of 6) things mentioned above.People complain about the public education system,but teachers can't make people value the education they are offering .They offer it,and if people don't make their kids learn,then don't blame the education system.If you want to blame somebody,then blame people making kids that are brothersbyanothermother.Public school teachers are not the problem.

It is a bit of a double edged sword in many sectors.

Private companies bottom line is profit, so they are
willing to break rules and screw people if they can
turn a profit. Even if it is short term in many cases.
This does happen. But there are companies in business
for the longterm that have provided innovation the
government could not have possibly accomplished.
And have made peoples lives better, especially in
medicine. A huge % of new drugs to help all sorts of
illnesses are discovered and produced in the US. A bit
of government help is also involved.

The government provides very little incentive for workers
to actually do a good job though. The government does a
horrible job at many things requiring vigiliance of others
money and efficiency. There is no incentive for running a
tight ship in many cases. But in some cases, especially local
governments, police, fire, and other services are quite good
because it is done locally and with pride.

It is a complex problem that will always be debated.
How much of a role does government need to play in
providing various services to the people who the government
represents.

I would also argue on the whole the public school system
does work in middle class to affluent areas. But in many
urban and some rural areas, its very poor. And it is completely
understandable. What teacher in their right mind wants
to go into a war zone where parents put their kids on
the bus so they can be done with them. And some rural
areas might be dominated by people (usually older folks)
who are unwilling to help fund public schools so they
have to drag "teachers" off the streets because the pay
is just above a Whataburger.