Barclay Tagg's comments on NoBiz

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

People complain about the small fields in the big races these days but then when we have a horse that could likely be one of the five or six best horses in the race, for the $5 million BC Classic, people are saying it's stupid to consider him.

If speed figures mean absolutely anything, then considering him "one of the best five or six horses in the race" would seem to be a magnificient stretch for just about anyone.

On paper, Student Council is only about a length slower than Nobiz on the dirt.

If by "best five or six," you meant "slowest two or three" then yea, I totally agree.

If he went, you could at least hope for a field of eight...that way you couldn't lose on either account.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

If speed figures mean absolutely anything, then considering him "one of the best five or six horses in the race" would seem to be a magnificient stretch for just about anyone.

On paper, Student Council is only about a length slower than Nobiz on the dirt.

If by "best five or six," you meant "slowest two or three" then yea, I totally agree.

If he went, you could at least hope for a field of eight...that way you couldn't lose on either account.

After you get past Curlin, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, Lawyer Ron and Hard Spun, tell me which other horses that are pointed to the race outclass Nobiz from a speed figure perspective?

Originally Posted by King Glorious

After you get past Curlin, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, Lawyer Ron and Hard Spun, tell me which other horses that are pointed to the race outclass Nobiz from a speed figure perspective?

A bunch of horses, many who aren't going because they are too slow. Horses like Fairbanks, Master Command, Grasshopper, Political Force, etc. Nobiz is a 100 beyer type horse. There is nothing special about him on dirt. Maybe he will turn out to be a great turf horse, although doubtful, but he just is not a Breeders Cup Classic horse. I don't even think he could win a race like the Clark.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

After you get past Curlin, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, Lawyer Ron and Hard Spun, tell me which other horses that are pointed to the race outclass Nobiz from a speed figure perspective?

Tiago is faster on paper. Diamond Stripes is faster on paper.

Heck, if Zanjero were to go, he would even be up to giving Nobiz fits in the fight for 8th given his recent form.

Throw in the fact that at a mile and a quarter, Student Council is even arguably faster than Nobiz (considering that Student Council's mile and a quarter numbers of late are essentially within a length to a length and a half of Nobiz's top dirt races at any distance), it looks like you're left with maybe Awesome Gem being slower than Nobiz.

It's a moot point considering that Nobiz is not going, but if he were, at this time it would appear that nearly all of the probables for the race are faster than he is -- especially going a mile and quarter.

That's nine I can count, just off the top of my head.

[Indian Charlie]

the most absurd thing is that there is a thread discussing slobiz that has gone on for at least four pages now.

personally, i think the storm cat filly that won the turf stakes the other day at belmont is more appealing!

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

lest we forget great hunter .bwanna bull,imawildandcrazy guy... wondering boy..who i think would love monmouth

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Tiago is faster on paper. Diamond Stripes is faster on paper.

Heck, if Zanjero were to go, he would even be up to giving Nobiz fits in the fight for 8th given his recent form.

Throw in the fact that at a mile and a quarter, Student Council is even arguably faster than Nobiz (considering that Student Council's mile and a quarter numbers of late are essentially within a length to a length and a half of Nobiz's top dirt races at any distance), it looks like you're left with maybe Awesome Gem being slower than Nobiz.

It's a moot point considering that Nobiz is not going, but if he were, at this time it would appear that nearly all of the probables for the race are faster than he is -- especially going a mile and quarter.


That's nine I can count, just off the top of my head.

OK so Diamond Stripes just came up with a 105 while beating Xchanger by less than a length in the Meadowlands Cup. So I guess now Xchanger is faster than Nobiz. Student Council sure did look faster running that 97 figure in Chicago a couple of weeks ago, proving that the slow time and figure of the Pacific Classic wasn't a fluke. Zanjero is faster? How do u say Tiago is faster but maybe Awesome Gem is slower when Awesome Gem just lost by a nose to Tiago? Either u think they are both faster or both maybe slower.

The other poster mentioned Fairbanks, Master Command, Political Force and Grasshopper. Apparently he missed Grasshopper's run in Louisiana. I don't know if the other three are even pointed to the race and even if they are, none of them have ever shown the consistency to make u believe that they are going to throw up their best race. Nobiz might not be the fifth or sixth best horse. But if he's truly improved as a racehorse and it's not just the grass, there is no way that I'd say that those horses that have been named are proven better than him.

Unless they really feel like he doesn't want 10f on dirt and that his improvement is strictly a result of the switch to grass, I don't think taking a shot is a bad idea.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

OK so Diamond Stripes just came up with a 105 while beating Xchanger by less than a length in the Meadowlands Cup. So I guess now Xchanger is faster than Nobiz. Student Council sure did look faster running that 97 figure in Chicago a couple of weeks ago, proving that the slow time and figure of the Pacific Classic wasn't a fluke. Zanjero is faster? How do u say Tiago is faster but maybe Awesome Gem is slower when Awesome Gem just lost by a nose to Tiago? Either u think they are both faster or both maybe slower.

I wasn't as familiar with Awesome Gem's PPs, so I didn't include him -- but I guess you're right. He's probably a faster 10f dirt horse too. Make that ten.

Zanjero is capable of running a figure in the triple digits. Diamond Stripes has run more than one. Nobiz has proven capable of running in the very low 100s on his better days, at his best distances, on dirt.

So really, anyone who can run a figure of 102 on dirt can compete with Nobiz And Student Council has run a 99 and a 97, both at a mile and a quarter, which put him within a few points of Nobiz's better dirt Beyers. I'm hardly saying that Student Council is a legit contender to take the BC Classic, but he just about equally as unlikely as Nobiz would have been.

[Danzig]

i don't think tagg is making a mistake at all. i think nobiz doesn't fit in either turf race, and i see no reason to run him in the classic. he runs better on turf, tagg said he has run down issues when on dirt.

everyone talks about trainers being too ambitious with spotting, or not running often enough. neither apply here.
tagg has a race in mind, at the ideal distance for his horse. what's wrong with that? not all bc races fit all horses, this being one of them.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I wasn't as familiar with Awesome Gem's PPs, so I didn't include him -- but I guess you're right. He's probably a faster 10f dirt horse too. Make that ten.

Zanjero is capable of running a figure in the triple digits. Diamond Stripes has run more than one. Nobiz has proven capable of running in the very low 100s on his better days, at his best distances, on dirt.

So really, anyone who can run a figure of 102 on dirt can compete with Nobiz And Student Council has run a 99 and a 97, both at a mile and a quarter, which put him within a few points of Nobiz's better dirt Beyers. I'm hardly saying that Student Council is a legit contender to take the BC Classic, but he just about equally as unlikely as Nobiz would have been.

and student council may well go to japan rather than the bc. perhaps they think he has a better shot there.
now if only more people would make these kinds of decisions with their supposed derby horses.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I wasn't as familiar with Awesome Gem's PPs, so I didn't include him -- but I guess you're right. He's probably a faster 10f dirt horse too. Make that ten.

Zanjero is capable of running a figure in the triple digits. Diamond Stripes has run more than one. Nobiz has proven capable of running in the very low 100s on his better days, at his best distances, on dirt.

So really, anyone who can run a figure of 102 on dirt can compete with Nobiz And Student Council has run a 99 and a 97, both at a mile and a quarter, which put him within a few points of Nobiz's better dirt Beyers. I'm hardly saying that Student Council is a legit contender to take the BC Classic, but he just about equally as unlikely as Nobiz would have been.

So we are basically agreeing then. You are acknowledging that once you get past what I call the Big Four, Nobiz fits right in with the rest of them. And it's worth keeping in mind that when Nobiz was running his best dirt figures, it was early in the year. I don't think it's too outrageous to think that there is a possibility that he's a better horse now than he was in the spring.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

So we are basically agreeing then. You are acknowledging that once you get past what I call the Big Four, Nobiz fits right in with the rest of them. And it's worth keeping in mind that when Nobiz was running his best dirt figures, it was early in the year. I don't think it's too outrageous to think that there is a possibility that he's a better horse now than he was in the spring.

Possibility? Sure. Likely? Nah. We're talking about a horse that has barely developed a step figure-wise throughout his career, and that's exactly what made him somewhat of a bust on the Triple Crown trail. I find it hard to believe that he'd develop more in three months of racing (last on dirt in July, getting smacked by Any Given Saturday) than he did through his first 10.

When you have a valuable and talented, if unspectacular, dirt horse who may turn out to be a super turf runner, "we could possibly be the fifth fastest horse in this race" doesn't seem to me like enough justification for a Classic try.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

So we are basically agreeing then. You are acknowledging that once you get past what I call the Big Four, Nobiz fits right in with the rest of them. And it's worth keeping in mind that when Nobiz was running his best dirt figures, it was early in the year. I don't think it's too outrageous to think that there is a possibility that he's a better horse now than he was in the spring.

No, we are not agreeing. Diamond Stripes is faster than Nobiz. Tiago is faster than Nobiz, and by proxy Awesome Gem would be too.

That puts him at least ninth on paper after you get past the obvious five.

So he'd get to scrum with Zanjero and Student Council for the last-place trifecta spots in my hypothetical field.

Sounds like a perfect reason for them to send him to the Classic. He's not even in the same zip code as the types of horses who are going to fight for the win, and is quite arguably, not even a contender for a midpack finish given the likely field.

The horse is exactly as fast on dirt this year as he was in his very first start. Horses like that don't win the BC Classic because they pop some decent race on rock hard turf at Belmont.

You're getting a bit carried away. Diamond Stripes would easily beat him, and that horse's best shot is to fill out the super.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

OK so Diamond Stripes just came up with a 105 while beating Xchanger by less than a length in the Meadowlands Cup. So I guess now Xchanger is faster than Nobiz. Student Council sure did look faster running that 97 figure in Chicago a couple of weeks ago, proving that the slow time and figure of the Pacific Classic wasn't a fluke. Zanjero is faster? How do u say Tiago is faster but maybe Awesome Gem is slower when Awesome Gem just lost by a nose to Tiago? Either u think they are both faster or both maybe slower.

The other poster mentioned Fairbanks, Master Command, Political Force and Grasshopper. Apparently he missed Grasshopper's run in Louisiana. I don't know if the other three are even pointed to the race and even if they are, none of them have ever shown the consistency to make u believe that they are going to throw up their best race. Nobiz might not be the fifth or sixth best horse. But if he's truly improved as a racehorse and it's not just the grass, there is no way that I'd say that those horses that have been named are proven better than him.

Unless they really feel like he doesn't want 10f on dirt and that his improvement is strictly a result of the switch to grass, I don't think taking a shot is a bad idea.

So one 93 Beyer offsets the fact that Grasshopper has two Beyers higher than anything Nobiz has run? What is Nobiz's high Beyer on the dirt, like a 98? So his best day can beat Grasshopper's worst by 3 lengths. Plus Grasshopper has his best figure at 10 furlongs.

This thread is insane. Looney Tunes.

That's all folks.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

This thread is insane. Looney Tunes.

That's all folks.

amen to that. i thought i was the only one who thought this thread makes no sense.

i've seen some of morty's threads that left me less perplexed!